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Climate Change & The Environment Discuss One Trillion Trees at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by FrancSevin Deforestation & reforestation , properly done is actually good management of the resource. Old growth may ...

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Old 07-11-2019, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Deforestation & reforestation , properly done is actually good management of the resource. Old growth may be pristine, pretty and romantic, but much of it is a wasted use of land. Little carbon recapture happens in virgin forests. One thing deforesting/reforesting does is cut and remove old wood. Material which is not burned but put into structures. Thus the CO2 capture remains intact. The new growth is therefore capturing more.

I own 80 acres of what was once old growth timberland. It was select cut but done poorly. One reason we got it cheap. I have spent ten years aiding in the reforestation. White pines, white oaks, shag bark hickory, black walnut. Blackberry bushes and native grasses.

As of now the creek runs clear again, all year. The grass is waist high in the old log marshalling yard. Blackberries and now Elderberry bushes are spontaneously growing every where. So we know we are making progress in restoring the original environment. We do not plan, in our lifetime, to harvest the timber. But at some point it is shepherd wise to do so.
Silviculture and reforestation was a topic of intense study of mine...
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
In addressing manmade global warming the arguments tend to be related to the unprecedented amount of CO2 we're releasing into the atmosphere in using carbon based fuels since the start of the industrial revolution. We need to take a step back and also acknowledge that there's a second component to the increase in atmospheric CO2 and that the deforestation that's reduced nature's ability to recycle carbon released into the atmosphere and return it to a solid state.

Increased CO2 PLUS deforestation has resulted in the dramatic rise in atmospheric CO2 that that contributes to global warming. Scientists haven't lost sight of that fact and point to reforestation to combat manmade CO2 levels.


https://news.yahoo.com/want-fight-cl...160700321.html

All plants breakdown the CO2 in the atmosphere into carbon for the fiber of the plant while releasing the oxygen but trees, with the huge amount of mass per square foot of land, pull far more carbon from the atmosphere than other plants like grass. Deforestation, as much as increased releases of CO2 into the atmosphere, have raised the CO2 levels to well over 400 ppm. Planting one trillion trees can reduce that level back down to about 300 ppm taking us back to the levels of 100 years ago.

Many governments (members of the Paris Accords) have already been doing this and lessons are being learned as we move forward.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ets-resistance

Ireland selected Sitka spruce to plant because it's a fast growing tree that grows very well in the Ireland and it can be harvested for wood when it reaches maturity so that it generates income as well as removing the CO2. The problem is with the single species "tree farm" approach that makes for a dark and gloomy forest as well as limiting the wildlife that can live in the forest. They're changing their approach and beginning to provide for more biodiverse forestation that's more in line with how nature works. Some trees like oaks take a long time to grow and don't remove as much CO2 per year but they make for a healthier and more human friendly forest and need to be a part of the reforestation plan.

We often hear about the "carbon tax" that would be imposed on large CO2 producers and those funds would be used to subsidize "green energy" producers. Many object to this idea for numerous reasons (I'm one of them). The difference here would be that money could be collected for the high CO2 producers that would be dedicated to a "tree planting fund" to offset the CO2 that is being pumped into the atmosphere. In short the industries that benefit financially by creating the problem would also be the industries that help fund the solution to the problem. The forests themselves would, in time, also be generating revenue to providing funding for the planting.

It's an interesting cost effective scientific proposition to address the problems of manmade global warming.
So, how much responsibility does the Sate of California bear for poor forestry management when the forest fires consume thousands of acres of forests each year? Which also leads to erosion and landslides.....

Poor forestry management effects us all.....
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Silviculture and reforestation was a topic of intense study of mine...
Interesting. I have studied it also.

As a kid, I always wanted to be a forester or a farmer. My allergies dictated otherwise.


That said;
I can always use advice. Even if it is free.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
What ever happened to Arbor Day?
Arbor Day was April 29, 2019 (but Trump cancelled it claiming that it was an Obama deep state holiday - just kidding). It's traditionally the last Friday of April in the US but falls on other days in other countries.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
So, how much responsibility does the Sate of California bear for poor forestry management when the forest fires consume thousands of acres of forests each year? Which also leads to erosion and landslides.....

Poor forestry management effects us all.....
Ask Trump. Most of the forest land in California is federal forest under BLM control or is a part of National Forest/National Park land.

Most of the fires that burn thousands of acres in California leading to erosion and mud slides are brush fires, not forest fires. The hills may have had trees on them a couple hundred years ago but any trees are long since gone leaving nothing but wild grass to grow in the spring, dry out in the summer, and then burn like an inferno in the fall.
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Ask Trump. Most of the forest land in California is federal forest under BLM control or is a part of National Forest/National Park land.

Most of the fires that burn thousands of acres in California leading to erosion and mud slides are brush fires, not forest fires. The hills may have had trees on them a couple hundred years ago but any trees are long since gone leaving nothing but wild grass to grow in the spring, dry out in the summer, and then burn like an inferno in the fall.
Lets go back a few decades, and remove Trump from your head, for just a moment...

As to which kind of fires, let me just say, my BIL worked for CalFire for 40 years, as a heavy equipment operator, in northern California.

You were saying?
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Old 07-11-2019, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Deforestation & reforestation , properly done is actually good management of the resource.
I would argue that a sustainable forestry plan is far superior and it's based upon the life-cycle of the forest.

Selective harvesting and replanting based upon the life-cycle of the forest maintains the health of the forest while deforestation basically kills the forest and then the reforestation is starting the forest over again from scratch. That leaves a huge gap of time in the forest where it's not a forest at all but is in the process of becoming one.

The greatest example of the problem of deforestation was the harvesting of the giant redwoods in California during the second half of the 19th Century. Without concern for the thousand years it took for a giant redwood to grow these trees were basically clear-cut in Northern California until the government stepped in to save the last 10% of them from being cut down. Those forests of huge beautiful redwoods often 20 feet or more in diameter are now gone and they'll never return. Had the logging been selectively done based upon the 1000 plus year life-cycle of the forest the trees would still be there removing massive amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:22 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
I would argue that a sustainable forestry plan is far superior and it's based upon the life-cycle of the forest.

Selective harvesting and replanting based upon the life-cycle of the forest maintains the health of the forest while deforestation basically kills the forest and then the reforestation is starting the forest over again from scratch. That leaves a huge gap of time in the forest where it's not a forest at all but is in the process of becoming one.

The greatest example of the problem of deforestation was the harvesting of the giant redwoods in California during the second half of the 19th Century. Without concern for the thousand years it took for a giant redwood to grow these trees were basically clear-cut in Northern California until the government stepped in to save the last 10% of them from being cut down. Those forests of huge beautiful redwoods often 20 feet or more in diameter are now gone and they'll never return. Had the logging been selectively done based upon the 1000 plus year life-cycle of the forest the trees would still be there removing massive amounts of CO2 from the atmosphere.

You would argue sustainable.....blah blah.
You may play the flute remarkably well but you only seem to have one tune. And you cannot seem to hear another one, even if it is the same as yours.

I've been talking about sustainable forestry the whole time.

As for the giant red woods, don't even start with them in you Carbon capture scheme. THEY BARELY GROW. New growth of new sequoia captures far more CO@ than the majestic old ones.

You ae aware that it is only because of the sea mist that daily bathes them that the giant sequoia's even survive?

Actually the greatest damage done was in the northern mid-west. The Paul Bunyan years in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Remediation has been slow. But mature and comprehensive forest have returned to the region.

That they were cut down is sadly, irreversible. Had we done different back then is a useless point. "WE" weren't even here in the late 19th century. We cannot replace a two thousand year old stand of sequoia's as they once stood in a primeval eastern forest. What WE can do is plant a forest of manageable and variable species. Of everything, plants, trees, wildlife. Because, frankly, anyone who understand silviculture knows, it isn't just about "TREES."

You still haven't told us where a trillion trees should be planted. And what species they would be. As for select cutting, it is sometimes the most effective way to sustainably harvest forest products. Sometimes not. Getting a single 20,000 pound tree down a mountainside without damage to what local environment remains is next to impossible.

In the southeast, patches of monoculture mixed into multicultural areas work well for both efficiency and for erosion control. It also better sustains wildlife. I say we can get this done with proper education and motivation of the private sector. You continue to preach we need to "Plant Trees!" Really, that's it????

Pardon my skepticism of your comprehension on the subject.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:34 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Arbor Day was April 29, 2019 (but Trump cancelled it claiming that it was an Obama deep state holiday - just kidding). It's traditionally the last Friday of April in the US but falls on other days in other countries.
it was tradition at our house growing up. and I kept it up planting trees or giving them to be planted when my kids were small
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: One Trillion Trees

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Originally Posted by Jaaaman View Post
National Arbor Day is celebrated every year on the last Friday in April; it is a civic holiday in Nebraska. Other states have selected their own dates for Arbor Day. Many states observe Arbor Day on different dates throughout the year based on best tree planting times in their area. The customary observance is to plant a tree. On the first Arbor Day, April 10, 1872, an estimated one million trees were planted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbor_Day
do you know anyone who observes it now? maybe starting that trend again would be helpful.
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