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Climate Change & The Environment Discuss Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by ShivaTD Are you aware of the fact that the Earth has gone through dramatic evolutionary environmental changes, ...

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Old 03-05-2017, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
Are you aware of the fact that the Earth has gone through dramatic evolutionary environmental changes, including dramatic changes in the climate, during it's 4.5 billion year existence. It is believed, based upon evidence, that the early atmosphere was dominated by CO2 while today it's about 89% nitrogen and 20% oxygen.

From a climatology perspective only the last 450 millions years has relevance to today's environment and we have significant information related to the last 450 million years.



Updating and revising historical records based upon the ever increasing scientific knowledge is called "fudging" by the science-deniers.



Weather and global climate change (AGW) are not the same subject. Global warming can cause some locations to have cooler weather and others to have much warmer weather. Some dry places to receive more rain. Some rainy places to receive less rain. Weather is a local phenomena while climate change is global.

Weather is predominately related to the troposphere (lower atmosphere) while global warming addresses stored planet heat energy (the amount of total stored heat in all of the atmosphere, all of the oceans, and all of the land).

For example the mean depth of the ocean is 15,000 ft and a change of 1C recorded at 15,000 feet will not affect the ocean surface temperature or the weather but it would cause a significant rise in the sea level because of the thermal expansion of the water.

When we hear Republicans yapping about the weather we know that they don't understand global warming.
Yes I am aware.

I am aware this is a political topic. Why because it is about taxing and controlling economies.

It has little if anything to do with our planet. It is totally a political argument that has little to do with statistics or even credible science.

It is just another left wing proposal to degrade our country, make us fall in line with one world government.

This is not in our best interests, and should be condemned.

Regards, Kirk
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Old 03-05-2017, 11:55 AM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

Republicans treat global warming just like they treat the US budget.

Instead of collecting the revenues to fund the authorized expenditures to have a balanced budget and instead of requiring the corporations creating greenhouse gases to invest in technology that dramatically reduces CO2 emissions that are an underlying cause of AWG the Republicans just shove these costs off onto future generations to pay for.

It's the "I've got mine, screw you" Republican ideology in practice.
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Old 03-05-2017, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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I am aware this is a political topic.

Regards, Kirk
No, Anthropogenic Global Warming a scientific topic.

The politics relate to whether the companies creating pollution should be held financially accountable or not for the pollution and environmental damage they cause.

The only reason fossil fuel is inexpensive is because the companies that profit from fossil fuel are not held financially liable for the full costs of the environmental damage they cause.

By analogy it's like allowing a person to rob banks while shielding them from prosecution for bank robbery.

The politics are divided based upon the issue of financial liability lines.

The "environmentalists" want the fossil fuel industry to be financially liable for the environmental damage they cause.

Republicans want to continue to exempt the fossil fuel industry from the financial liability for the environmental damage they cause.


The political debate really has nothing to do with the science of Anthropogenic Global Warming.
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Old 03-05-2017, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
No, Anthropogenic Global Warming a scientific topic.

The politics relate to whether the companies creating pollution should be held financially accountable or not for the pollution and environmental damage they cause.

The only reason fossil fuel is inexpensive is because the companies that profit from fossil fuel are not held financially liable for the full costs of the environmental damage they cause.

By analogy it's like allowing a person to rob banks while shielding them from prosecution for bank robbery.

The politics are divided based upon the issue of financial liability lines.

The "environmentalists" want the fossil fuel industry to be financially liable for the environmental damage they cause.

Republicans want to continue to exempt the fossil fuel industry from the financial liability for the environmental damage they cause.


The political debate really has nothing to do with the science of Anthropogenic Global Warming.
Then I would be interested in knowing why taxes are being levied against companies that aren't 'fossil fuel' based.

Those taxes aren't absorbed by the companies that create the energy, they are passed on to the consumer. In effect, taxing the every day joe for Climate Change.

This , unfortunately, is beyond some of the Democratic scope of understanding: Taxing it will not stop climate change. Man's impact is minimal. I've listened to the squawking on this for decades. Yes, we need to take care of our planet, and minimize pollution of the ground and of the air. But it still doesn't change Mother Nature's course of climate change.
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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The only reason fossil fuel is inexpensive is because the companies that profit from fossil fuel are not held financially liable for the full costs of the environmental damage they cause.
.
And I suppose even though you do not believe in a God, that you would be fine with accepting the position of "God" so you can be the one who sets the amount paid for damaging "your" environment.

So extortion is your game and trade. Every fricking one of us benefits from cheap fossil fuel you dig dong.. But you want yourself or left wing to benefit from the levy you would place for "everyones" benfit. Trouble is, no one but you and your left wing Government would benefit. This would not only be not fair to the people, it would be criminal. They pay and get nothing in return, except the belief that perhaps some how some small way they maybe helping the planet... This is the kind of crap the ruins economies. I guess it would help the one world order, one world government I accuse you of wanting, but you never respond to. I know what that means.

Regards, Kirk
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Old 03-05-2017, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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I appreciate your discussions on cc, mlurp. yes I do fear it will affect my generation. I get newsletters and notices from nasa and live science and many others. there are regular articles-not as many as archeology and newly discovered life lately but about 3rd place is articles about what is already happening or has happened.

Look to my answer to 762NATO salty.


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Originally Posted by 762nato View Post
Lurpy You are a good guy and I respect your opinions. I have a lot in common with you most importantly VN service. However I think you have gone off the porch with this climate change business. There has always been natural climate change since the beginning of time no one disputes that. The notation it is man made and we must implement further regulations to combat it is a left wing anti capitalist hoax. All the statistical data comes from scientists who need to come up with phony stats to maintain their grants . The very fact that left tries to claim it is settled science when it is based on models with no empirical data smacks of the left wing tactic of suppressing dissent.
Yes I do to answer your first question. In fact many times over the billions of years. Yet not once was man-made items present, nor were the time involved as rapid as with this present situation..

And in fact till I started to see actual vivid detail of the effects up in Alaska and at both poles I thought as each denier does now. Natural.

But you see I know the damage man kind does to this planet. Always have. And I hate it.
Once in space we got pictures of this little blue ball with so much darkness all around it.
It was suppose to make people think. Some did others still don't recycle or give it a second thought. I mean look at our trash laden cities, towns even the country with McDonald wrappers, bottles, cans even mattress beside the roads.
Look at our oceans and Sea's. Did you watch Rio last year. The water sports in that trashed filled infected bay.
The Ganga River in India, aren't your eyes open when sights like these are shown?
And this is just the attitude of man-kind and while they do know it is causing problems.
100 years ago they didn't know yet filled the air with carbons and other derbies, poisons.
Yet today they know and still burn much more in a few days as back a 100+ years ago, clear cutting for farm or ranch lands.

Some believe what nature has done in the past is the cause. Others have grown to accept some of the blame as part of man-kind of the past 100+ years of neglect.

I sure don't want any new taxes period! Nor am I thinking that a few dollars from each of the 8 billion population of Earth will fill this with out stopping the way we go about doing things and lose a few billion people while doing it.

I accept that in time the crap will hit the fan. And the funny thing is end time prophecy speaks about the air, the seas and waters of the Earth becoming waste.
I in no way want or believe man-kind can continued to live on for a billion more years this way as some of you believe.

P.S. thank you for the kind words 762NATO I to find much of what you say informative and I do respect you and what you have given toward this country and it's people.
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Climate change is a threat - but it won't hurt me

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And I suppose even though you do not believe in a God, that you would be fine with accepting the position of "God" so you can be the one who sets the amount paid for damaging "your" environment.

Regards, Kirk
Actually I'd reject playing the role of "God" in making that determination but I've offered another proposal. If our government is not going to protect our environment then empower the American people to protect our environment. That's relatively simple to do. Instead of exempting corporate entities or utilities that profit from pollution we can simply make them financially responsible for damage they cause to the environment.

First provide legal standing to every US citizen to file a class action lawsuit on behalf of the "People of the United States" against any entity generating revenue based upon the "allegation" that the entity is creating "pollution" that that can be harmful to the environment.

The case would be heard in a federal court where the scientific arguments are made as well as the costs associated with fully mitigating (removing) the pollutants from the environment.

If the defendant is found guilty then it's financially responsible for compensatory damages equal to the cost of mitigation (removing 100% of the pollutants they created from the environment).

Additionally, to discourage pollution they would be assessed with punitive damages equal to twice the amount of the compensatory damages and those funds would be used to clean-up other pollution.

Finally the defendant would be responsible for reasonable legal and other associated costs for the plaintiff.

So no "god" numbers but instead actual financial liability based upon science and costs for clean-up plus punitive damages to discourage the pollution. Sound like a fair proposition for Republicans to get behind?
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