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Old 12-28-2016, 09:57 PM
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Default Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Old 12-28-2016, 10:09 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Originally Posted by Mellon_Collie View Post
Electric cars at this point are mostly an out of sight, out of mind thing. Instead of getting your hands all stinky fueling your gas burner, a farmer gets his hands all stinky putting diesel in in his tractor, instead of smelling that stuff coming out of your exhaust, a power plant operator smells the coal burning.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

Electric cars are not green. They require more energy to produce and consume power from the grid with a net loss of 40% in transmission lines.

Germany has a real problem in that they, like the USA) are cutting out Nuclear power. Switching back to coal (from the USA in part)

Currently ( sorry for the pun) The USA is also turning away from nuclear. At Great cost. A recent facility in Bellefonte TN has taken43 years to complete at a cost of $5 billion. It will never turn it's turbines from nuclear heat. A total pig in a poke bids are now at $ 36.4 million for the plant assets.

USA production is still based on Fossil at 34%, yet almost 20% is nuclear, Hydro is 6%, wind is up and coming at 4.7%. Solar is the red headed step child at less than 1%

Hard to believe with acres of Solar panels in the northeast and West and thousands of eagle shredding windmills on the open prairies.

All E-autos do is transfer the point of emissions whilst creating a loss of power in transmission.

Cutting fossil out while bringing in so much more demand is worse than foolish. E-Cars are handy and use full metro transportation. But, until we can power the grid with unicorn farts, their implementation should be regulated by the simplest of market forces.. IE meeting a consumer demand.

Not a government mandate.

The new Chevy electric from GM may make real inroads in the consumption and range. Looks good too. But don't be fooled it still pollutes.
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Originally Posted by Mellon_Collie View Post
I normally like Adams videos, but this one is unfortunately pretty full of misinformation and overly simplified arguments.. Electric cars aren't perfect, but they are without a doubt much better for the environment than their gasoline and diesel powered counterparts. This article explains why in more detail:

https://electrek.co/2016/12/28/adam-...isinformation/
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Old 12-28-2016, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Electric cars are not green. They require more energy to produce and consume power from the grid with a net loss of 40% in transmission lines.

.
Yeah, no, that's not true... but it you're welcome to source it. If you're talking about lithium that accounts for something like 2% of the materials that goes into a Lithium ion battery, not to mention the issues with lithium mining are highly overblown. Regardless, the amount of carbon used in making an electric car does not even come close to equal the total carbon footprint of a combustion engine car. If you're talking specifically about local environmental damage, I again highly doubt that extracting and refining lithium is worse than extracting and refining oil (although some lithium extraction methods are objectively bad for the local environment), but you're again welcome to source your claim.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Electric cars are not green. They require more energy to produce and consume power from the grid with a net loss of 40% in transmission lines.

Germany has a real problem in that they, like the USA) are cutting out Nuclear power. Switching back to coal (from the USA in part)

Currently ( sorry for the pun) The USA is also turning away from nuclear. At Great cost. A recent facility in Bellefonte TN has taken43 years to complete at a cost of $5 billion. It will never turn it's turbines from nuclear heat. A total pig in a poke bids are now at $ 36.4 million for the plant assets.

USA production is still based on Fossil at 34%, yet almost 20% is nuclear, Hydro is 6%, wind is up and coming at 4.7%. Solar is the red headed step child at less than 1%

Hard to believe with acres of Solar panels in the northeast and West and thousands of eagle shredding windmills on the open prairies.

All E-autos do is transfer the point of emissions whilst creating a loss of power in transmission.

Cutting fossil out while bringing in so much more demand is worse than foolish. E-Cars are handy and use full metro transportation. But, until we can power the grid with unicorn farts, their implementation should be regulated by the simplest of market forces.. IE meeting a consumer demand.

Not a government mandate.

The new Chevy electric from GM may make real inroads in the consumption and range. Looks good too. But don't be fooled it still pollutes.
For the record. The Chevy Volt (I assume that's the one you are talking about). Range is 238 miles claimed. Charging time is 30 minutes for a 90 mile charge. Or, assuming equal charging times across the spectrum, 2.5 - 3 hours time to full charge. No mention in the ads of electricity cost/mile. 280 will not get me from my home to Winston Salem, an average 4 hour drive. and back. It is not convenient to charge at a location other than your own home since special wiring needs installing.

MSRP $37,500 subsidy 7,500. They look to be comparable to an gas powered car at half the price.

Then there's battery disposal I've not yet heard of a viable plan.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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For the record. The Chevy Volt (I assume that's the one you are talking about). Range is 238 miles claimed. Charging time is 30 minutes for a 90 mile charge. Or, assuming equal charging times across the spectrum, 2.5 - 3 hours time to full charge. No mention in the ads of electricity cost/mile. 280 will not get me from my home to Winston Salem, an average 4 hour drive. and back. It is not convenient to charge at a location other than your own home since special wiring needs installing.

MSRP $37,500 subsidy 7,500. They look to be comparable to an gas powered car at half the price.

Then there's battery disposal I've not yet heard of a viable plan.
Uh that's "maximum range" Assuming only motive power consumption. Not heaters AC, lights or fans. What happens when it quits. You plug in where and wait how long? HMMM?

Agreed. I wasn't touting the Volt as a utility vehicle for long trips but a metro vehicle for commuting and groceries. They even look cool.
In point of fact they handle well and make a decent family in town car.
As they are pure electric, there is no gas mileage, and consequently no contributions of gasoline taxes for road repair.

Down side is they cost $30K minus the $7500 Tax rebate. Hardly a bargain but better than the Telsa deal.
But back to the OP, E-autos are not the green panacea claimed. Not if you take in the whole picture of their costs including the grid. We should have them in our future as the technology develops. I just argue they should be developed by private interest. Not the Gubmit.

And at best, they are a secondary choice

BTW, the new Chevy requires 18 hours on a 110V plug to reach full charge. The 220V charger (extra cost) does it in about 6 hours.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Yeah, no, that's not true... but it you're welcome to source it. If you're talking about lithium that accounts for something like 2% of the materials that goes into a Lithium ion battery, not to mention the issues with lithium mining are highly overblown. Regardless, the amount of carbon used in making an electric car does not even come close to equal the total carbon footprint of a combustion engine car. If you're talking specifically about local environmental damage, I again highly doubt that extracting and refining lithium is worse than extracting and refining oil (although some lithium extraction methods are objectively bad for the local environment), but you're again welcome to source your claim.
Think electric cars are truly green? Not if their power comes from coal - CBS News
https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas...t-green-think/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/study-ele...68.html?ref=gs

It Turns Out "Green" Cars Aren't So "Green" After All | The Federalist Papers

Electric Cars: How Green Are They Really? - CBS News

Not enough,,,,? I got more
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Old 12-29-2016, 12:36 AM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

I know the right is conditioned to hate anything that is supposed to be green so they will all trash the cars. For me? My friend has one of the first Tesla sports cars. I drive it whenever I am in Los Angeles. It is a kick in the ass to drive. 0-60 in 6 seconds. Silently. I like them and I would love to see more. For one thing they almost never break down. And almost not motor noise. And not stink. So I support them.
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Old 12-29-2016, 02:50 AM
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Default Re: Electric Cars Aren't As Green As You Think

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I know the right is conditioned to hate anything that is supposed to be green so they will all trash the cars.
We don't need to trash electric cars...

They do a fine job of trashing themselves...

Chevy Volt Battery Fires Threaten All Electric Vehicle Makers, Not Just GM

Fisker Investigating Another Fire in Karma Electric Car

Ford Electric Cars Come Under Fire for Causing Fires Say Investigators

Tesla Model S catches fire at supercharger station in Norway
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