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Climate Change & The Environment Discuss 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Infidel Dog Man someday you Progs are going to have to teach me how you do that ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2012, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
Man someday you Progs are going to have to teach me how you do that one where you can lie to a person's face when all a person has to do is click your link to see you're lying.

I say you posted the wrong link. Here is the link you posted. It's in the OP.

Senate Plans Two Symbolic Votes On Taxes That Won't Change Anything : The Two-Way : NPR
Yes I did post the wrong link - I haven't denied it. But the article I pasted was from the NPR link...so, I'm not sure I get what your point is.

Quote:
You also posted a small blurb from the story you were trying to link to before you made your mistake. In that it told of chunks of glacier breaking off in the Arctic. It does not say it, but that has happened since man has been bright enough to observe it. It's a thing that happens.
Yes....so?

Quote:

The blurb also speaks of a weeks long warm period in the arctic, and suggests this "massive" event is so radical it adds evidence to the idea of Global Warming. It does not mention it, but this also is one of those things that happen throughout geologic history. It is not without precedent. It is not something that happens as a result of something that man did in the last 150 years as the blurb suggests, and you should know this, because once this thing of precedence is pointed out to you, you admit it said in the full article this is part of a cycle of - they now claim - about 150 years. Upon challenge you told me this was in your article you were trying to link to - you know the one you gave the bad link to.
It does not suggest it's radical because if you went to the original story it states it has happened before. I apologize for the confusion on the wrong link but I think it's pretty obvious that was an honest mistake. Actually - the correct link could easily have been tracked by checking the picture that I also posted so I'm not sure why you are trying to make this into some sort of big deal. The NPR article stated that it could be part of a cycle. What's your problem here?

Quote:
I gave you a link that showed you this issue has been debated for a few days now, and originally whether or not your "massive" melt of a couple weeks in duration mattered to the global warming argument depended on the idea of precedence. It's happened before. It will happen again, and has nothing to do with any influence man might have on the weather.
Yes you did give a link and I haven't disputed that it has happened before and could happen again. However - it is also not certain that it many not be part of a new norm along with a lot of other worrisome weather trends and YOU can't be certain it won't be either. Time will tell.

Quote:
What boggles my mind is even now when you admit this is a cyclical thing, you still want to insinuate man is causing this when simple common sense will tell anybody who wants to think about it that's obviously not the case here.
There is plenty of evidence to justify the claim that human activities are influencing climate change and this is where you're so-called "common sense" is lacking any kind of sense much less "common".

Quote:
And how can the issue of precedence be a strawman argument if it's the central argument against the assumption human caused global warming is the cause here - something which was stated - I will say clearly - in your posted blurb? Answer: It can't be. That's not what a strawman argument is. Calling a central argument Strawman is a thing Progs do when they don't like it that their argument has been destroyed by the central argument. They believe they can do this, because they don't think they'll be challenged on it. Guess what? Didn't work.
Your argument supported by your links was: Basically, they suggest it is not "massive", and it is not unprecedented. It is media hype.

It IS massive no matter how you look at it - it's a large amount of melting in a short amount of time. The article never claimed it was "unprededented" and in fact states it isn't. The concern is when put together with other climactic changes it might not represent a new norm. No one knows the answer to that either way. The strawman is trying to make the claim that anyone stated it was "unprecedented". That's not the central argument. I'll admit the mistake is my own fault for not posting the correct link.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2012, 12:22 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

Screw the nitpicking, and dodging. Tell me this. If these weeks of warming in Greenland have precedent (and they do) preceding any possible effect man could possibly have had on the climate, how does it, prove, support, or even suggest the idea man is affecting the climate?
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Old 07-26-2012, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
Screw the nitpicking, and dodging. Tell me this. If these weeks of warming in Greenland have precedent (and they do) preceding any possible effect man could possibly have had on the climate, how does it, prove, support, or even suggest the idea man is affecting the climate?
Who knows what environmental events may have suddenly have happened in the past or what might have caused them?
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:01 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
Ignore it? As usual?

Bull!


I addressed it - with science - here: Political Wrinkles - View Single Post - Global warming skeptics as knowledgeable about science as climate change believers

You never responded.


Who is ignoring it?
I didn't respond because your post too stupid to respond to. Links were provided in large numbers at the site I linked to and you were either too lazy to scroll to the bottom, too dumb to understand them or just being a twit. You don't want to learn anything, you just want your perpsective to be right.

The basic fundamentals of our atmosphere and our production of CO2 are very well known and documented. This is the sarting point for all research into manmade GW and when I see reports that contradict this foundational science, I know that they are wrong. It would be like seeing a paper written about acceleration of a falling object in a vacuum that didn't match "gravity force F = (G m1*m2)/r*r". If you saw that glaring flaw in the research, then you could safely arrive at the conclusion that there was BIG problem with it. But what you're doing is ignoring the foundational aspects of this research and choosing ingorance over education.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
I didn't respond because your post too stupid to respond to. Links were provided in large numbers at the site I linked to and you were either too lazy to scroll to the bottom, too dumb to understand them or just being a twit. You don't want to learn anything, you just want your perpsective to be right.
What an utter cop-out. I'm guessing - based on this response, you were too lazy to read what I wrote since I referred to the links at the bottom.


Quote:
The basic fundamentals of our atmosphere and our production of CO2 are very well known and documented. This is the sarting point for all research into manmade GW and when I see reports that contradict this foundational science, I know that they are wrong. It would be like seeing a paper written about acceleration of a falling object in a vacuum that didn't match "gravity force F = (G m1*m2)/r*r". If you saw that glaring flaw in the research, then you could safely arrive at the conclusion that there was BIG problem with it. But what you're doing is ignoring the foundational aspects of this research and choosing ingorance over education.
What you are doing is refusing to address any of the points I made that directly addressed your so-called "foundational" research and resorting instead to variations of "you're too stupid to bother to refute" commentary.

If you are so brilliant - then refute it point by point since I made the (wasted) effort to do so with your "foundational" link unless you are incapable of putting forth any better argument than "your too stupid/too ignorant" commentary.

I thought better of you and clearly I am wrong or, perhaps, you are not capable of defending the points directly.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
What an utter cop-out. I'm guessing - based on this response, you were too lazy to read what I wrote since I referred to the links at the bottom.




What you are doing is refusing to address any of the points I made that directly addressed your so-called "foundational" research and resorting instead to variations of "you're too stupid to bother to refute" commentary.

If you are so brilliant - then refute it point by point since I made the (wasted) effort to do so with your "foundational" link unless you are incapable of putting forth any better argument than "your too stupid/too ignorant" commentary.

I thought better of you and clearly I am wrong or, perhaps, you are not capable of defending the points directly.
If you tell me that you are doing a study on how a ball falls when dropped in your kitchen and the first thing you tell me is that it falls UP, then why even bother with the acceleration studies you did?? Your basics are wrong, so there's NO chance that the details are meaningful. If a GW study comes to a conclusion that differs from the foundational SCIENCE of our atmosphere, the GW effect it's components have and the amount of those components that man contributes to, then it's WRONG.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
Screw the nitpicking, and dodging. Tell me this. If these weeks of warming in Greenland have precedent (and they do) preceding any possible effect man could possibly have had on the climate, how does it, prove, support, or even suggest the idea man is affecting the climate?
In and of itself it doesn't "prove" (or "disprove") the theory that human activity is affecting global climate. I didn't make that claim.

It's one more piece of data to take into account. If I were a scientist I would want to know:

what is causing it at this time?
what caused it at prior times?
is there any evidence to suggest it is happening at a faster rate, or the same rate at prior times?
how will it affect sea-level in the near future irregardless of the climate change argument?
how will it affect ocean currents that in turn affect climate?

I realize when you mind is riding on what is essentially a one-trick pony, those questions likely won't matter.
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Old 07-26-2012, 02:36 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
If you tell me that you are doing a study on how a ball falls when dropped in your kitchen and the first thing you tell me is that it falls UP, then why even bother with the acceleration studies you did?? Your basics are wrong, so there's NO chance that the details are meaningful. If a GW study comes to a conclusion that differs from the foundational SCIENCE of our atmosphere, the GW effect it's components have and the amount of those components that man contributes to, then it's WRONG.
Address the actual points made then. I made the effort to address specific points in your link with scientific data disputing it and all you can say is "it's foundational" - what I am stating is your link left out chunks of information that are also "foundational".
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:26 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
In and of itself it doesn't "prove" (or "disprove") the theory that human activity is affecting global climate.
Of course, it doesn't.

You think a short warm spurt in Greenland is important though, right? Cool, so if I point out to you say the unseasonable blizzard in Sweden that forced Obama to retreat early from the Swedish global warming summit, or the snow blizzards in the middle east, or the decimation of livestock in China from cold snaps, or any of the other freaky cold weather occurrences over the last few years you won't be telling me that's weather, not climate, right.


Quote:
I didn't make that claim
You mean this bogus nonsense from the blurb in your OP?

Quote:
It has stunned and alarmed scientists, and deepened fears about the pace and future consequences of climate change.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 07-26-2012, 03:33 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
Of course, it doesn't.

You think a short warm spurt in Greenland is important though, right? Cool, so if I point out to you say the unseasonable blizzard in Sweden that forced Obama to retreat early from the Swedish global warming summit, or the snow blizzards in the middle east, or the decimation of livestock in China from cold snaps, or any of the other freaky cold weather occurrences over the last few years you won't be telling me that's weather, not climate, right.
Is it a "short warm spurt"? You seem to be operating under the delusion that "climate change" means only warming. It doesn't. for example, melting ice can cause seawater temperature changes that can effect critical currents that keep parts of Europe (Britain for example) relatively temperate for their location and could potentially cause cooling in that region.



Quote:
You mean this bogus nonsense from the blurb in your OP?
"It has stunned and alarmed scientists, and deepened fears about the pace and future consequences of climate change. "

What exactly is bogus about it? (given the questions it raises)?
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