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Climate Change & The Environment Discuss 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years at the General Discussion; A pair of NASA satellite images taken just four days apart tells a potentially worrying story of melting ice in ...

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Old 07-25-2012, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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A pair of NASA satellite images taken just four days apart tells a potentially worrying story of melting ice in the polar summer.

The first, snapped from orbit on July 8, shows about 40 percent of the Greenland ice sheet shaded in pink or red to illustrate probable or confirmed surface melting. The second photo, taken on July 12, shows nearly the entire land mass — 97 percent — blotched in a red hue.

In a typical year, only about half of the Greenland ice sheet undergoes this kind of melting before it later refreezes. But the rapidity and extent of the July change is what has caught scientists off guard, said Thomas Mote, a professor at the University of Georgia, who helped confirm the data from three satellites.

"Several of us were looking at the data with multiple different instruments and we began talking to each other when we realized we were seeing something quite unusual," he says.

Scientists note that besides covering a large area, the melting is happening at the top of the ice cap, where temperatures are coldest. They blame a massive heat dome parked over the island that has set up perfect conditions for melting high-altitude snow and ice.

Alarming? "I wouldn't use that word," say Mote. "We know from looking at ice cores that melt at the highest levels of elevation in Greenland has occurred in the past — not in our lifetimes, and not since the era of satellites, but it certainly has occurred."

The last time it happened was about 150 years ago, in 1889, according to ice core records.

But the Greenland melt roughly coincides with a giant chunk of ice described as "twice the size of Manhattan," breaking off the Petermann Glacier in northern Greenland.

It's all part of a bad year for the Arctic, helped along by North America's record-breaking heat wave, says Mark Serreze, a senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center at the University of Colorado Boulder.

The heat has shrunk and thinned ice not just in Greenland but across the region. "The Greenland ice sheet is part of a larger picture," he says.

"We've always known that it is the Arctic where we're going to be seeing the effects of climate change first and it is the Arctic where these changes are going to be most pronounced," Serreze says.

"The events unfolding over the past 30 years, of which 2012 is really just an exclamation point, are telling us that we've got it figured out."
Massive Ice Melt In Greenland Worries Scientists : NPR

So we are in a heat wave I guess. I'm ready for a mini ice age!
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:04 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Massive Ice Melt In Greenland Worries Scientists : NPR

So we are in a heat wave I guess. I'm ready for a mini ice age!
Quoted from your own source...

Quote:
Alarming? "I wouldn't use that word," say Mote. "We know from looking at ice cores that melt at the highest levels of elevation in Greenland has occurred in the past — not in our lifetimes, and not since the era of satellites, but it certainly has occurred."

The last time it happened was about 150 years ago, in 1889, according to ice core records.
So what were seeing is a CYCLE ...Nothing has changed because man industrialized...The very same thing happened BEFOREHAND...

In other words, nothing to see here folks...Move along and stop being scared by the scientists that depend on grants...
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
First of all let's remember you posted the wrong link. I had to assume you were using the original story as released to the AP. You're NPR story was posted after all that feedback so they could take the critiques into consideration, and make corrections in the more idiotic assertions of the original.
The original story I posted was from NPR and it included all the relevant information. You can assume anything you want
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:53 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Infidel Dog View Post
BTW is there some sort of a Prog overlord teacher you guys can contact to find out the meaning of the term "Strawman". You Prog underlings use it, and I never have a clue what you're talking about. Do they just tell you to use it, and not worry what it means, or something?
A strawman argument is a logical fallacy and has nothing to do with "prog" or "con" viewpoints. Look it up if you can't figure out what it is but in the meantime - quit creating fake arguments and attributing them to me.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:54 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Massive Ice Melt In Greenland Worries Scientists : NPR

So we are in a heat wave I guess. I'm ready for a mini ice age!
You're a gem Saltie
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Quoted from your own source...

So what were seeing is a CYCLE ...Nothing has changed because man industrialized...The very same thing happened BEFOREHAND...

In other words, nothing to see here folks...Move along and stop being scared by the scientists that depend on grants...
They don't know if it's a trend or the beginning of a new norm.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Quoted from your own source...

So what were seeing is a CYCLE ...Nothing has changed because man industrialized...The very same thing happened BEFOREHAND...

In other words, nothing to see here folks...Move along and stop being scared by the scientists that depend on grants...
They don't know if it's a trend or the beginning of a new norm.

So...scientists that "depend on grants" are baaaad but scientists that depend on money from the energy industries are goooood
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
They don't suggest it is "massive" - it is massive. They also make no claim about it being "unprededented" in fact, they state that it has happened before and could be a regular event every 150 years or so. However, Koenig and other researchers also can't be sure this isn't the new normal.

Nice strawman.
Otherwise, nice strawman.
They aslo haven't taken the due diligence to make sure that it's manmade, since manmade CO2 doesn't account for enough CO2 in our atmosphere to be able to notice it's presence and no other manmade GH gas comes even remotely close. But that's just science and not hyperbole, so you can ignore it if you'd like (as usual).
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
They aslo haven't taken the due diligence to make sure that it's manmade, since manmade CO2 doesn't account for enough CO2 in our atmosphere to be able to notice it's presence and no other manmade GH gas comes even remotely close. But that's just science and not hyperbole, so you can ignore it if you'd like (as usual).
Ignore it? As usual?

Bull!


I addressed it - with science - here: Political Wrinkles - View Single Post - Global warming skeptics as knowledgeable about science as climate change believers

You never responded.


Who is ignoring it?
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:09 AM
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Default Re: 'Heat Dome' Linked To Greenland's Biggest Melt In 30 Years

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
The original story I posted was from NPR and it included all the relevant information. You can assume anything you want
Man someday you Progs are going to have to teach me how you do that one where you can lie to a person's face when all a person has to do is click your link to see you're lying.

I say you posted the wrong link. Here is the link you posted. It's in the OP.

Senate Plans Two Symbolic Votes On Taxes That Won't Change Anything : The Two-Way : NPR

It's titled \Senate Plans Two Symbolic Votes on Taxes. Some day you'll have to explain to me what that has to do with a couple warm weeks in Greenland.

You also posted a small blurb from the story you were trying to link to before you made your mistake. In that it told of chunks of glacier breaking off in the Arctic. It does not say it, but that has happened since man has been bright enough to observe it. It's a thing that happens.

The blurb also speaks of a weeks long warm period in the arctic, and suggests this "massive" event is so radical it adds evidence to the idea of Global Warming. It does not mention it, but this also is one of those things that happen throughout geologic history. It is not without precedent. It is not something that happens as a result of something that man did in the last 150 years as the blurb suggests, and you should know this, because once this thing of precedence is pointed out to you, you admit it said in the full article this is part of a cycle of - they now claim - about 150 years. Upon challenge you told me this was in your article you were trying to link to - you know the one you gave the bad link to.

I gave you a link that showed you this issue has been debated for a few days now, and originally whether or not your "massive" melt of a couple weeks in duration mattered to the global warming argument depended on the idea of precedence. It's happened before. It will happen again, and has nothing to do with any influence man might have on the weather.

What boggles my mind is even now when you admit this is a cyclical thing, you still want to insinuate man is causing this when simple common sense will tell anybody who wants to think about it that's obviously not the case here.

And how can the issue of precedence be a strawman argument if it's the central argument against the assumption human caused global warming is the cause here - something which was stated - I will say clearly - in your posted blurb? Answer: It can't be. That's not what a strawman argument is. Calling a central argument Strawman is a thing Progs do when they don't like it that their argument has been destroyed by the central argument. They believe they can do this, because they don't think they'll be challenged on it. Guess what? Didn't work.

Last edited by Infidel Dog; 07-26-2012 at 11:26 AM..
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