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Climate Change & The Environment Discuss Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real at the General Discussion; Originally Posted by Coyote They "claim". What proof that their claim is valid? That admissions are refused because they don't ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2011, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
They "claim".

What proof that their claim is valid? That admissions are refused because they don't meet established criteria for submission?
I don't understand what you're asking.

Do you remember Climategate?
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

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I don't understand what you're asking.

Do you remember Climategate?
"Climategate" ended up being much ado about really, very little. Sort of a Rightwing Wetdream with premature ejaculation.

PolitiFact | Inhofe claims that e-mails 'debunk' science behind climate change

And, more to the point - no evidence that the research of skeptics if kept out of professional arenas for any reason other than merit.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
And, more to the point - no evidence that the research of skeptics if kept out of professional arenas for any reason other than merit.
Politifact isn't an unbiased source. I'm sure you can do better than that.


From the emails:

Quote:
In January 2005, the scientists were greatly concerned with the work of Stephen McIntyre, the editor of Climate Audit and the man responsible for discrediting the infamous “Hockey Stick” graph. McIntyre had a manuscript published in Geophysical Research Letters (GRL) that was edited by Professor James Saiers and reviewed by three scientists. This did not sit well with the alarmists and Tom Wigley of NCAR wrote to Michal Mann, author of the “Hockey Stick” saying, “If you think that Saiers is in the greenhouse skeptics camp, then, if we can find documentary evidence of this, we could go through official AGU channels to get him ousted.”

Before that, Mann was concerned about the publication “Climate Research.” He wrote to Phil Jones saying “the peer-review process at Climate Research has been hijacked by a few skeptics on the editorial board” and that the skeptics had staged a coup. The solution as Mann saw it was to begin a concerted effort to discourage scientists to submit to their work to the publication. “I think we have to stop considering "Climate Research" as a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal,” Mann said.

The next month, Tom Wigley was also concerned about “Climate Research” and felt ousting the publication’s editor-in-chief, Hans von Storch, was the way to go. Wigley wrote to Tim Carter, Mike Hulme and Phil Jones saying, “Mike's idea to get editorial board members to resign will probably not work -- must get rid of von Storch too, otherwise holes will eventually fill up with people like Legates, Balling, Lindzen, Michaels, Singer, etc.”

“Weather”, the monthly magazine of the Royal Meteorological Society was targeted just this year by the scientists. Phil Jones was not getting along with the editor of the publication and was prepared to go over his head. He told Ben Santer of Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, “I'm having a dispute with the new editor of Weather. I've complained about him to the RMS Chief Exec. If I don't get him to back down, I won't be sending any more papers to any RMS journals and I'll be resigning from the RMS.”

Santer agreed with Jones and was upset that the RMS dared to make the scientists provide data to back up their research. He wrote back, “If the RMS is going to require authors to make ALL data available - raw data PLUS results from all intermediate calculations - I will not submit any further papers to RMS journals.”
This is no 'wet dream' this is politics trumping science. I'm sure you can see that.
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
Politifact isn't an unbiased source. I'm sure you can do better than that.


From the emails:



This is no 'wet dream' this is politics trumping science. I'm sure you can see that.
And more, concerning the emails and outcome of the investigation into it:

FactCheck.org : Some “Climategate” Conclusions


I notice you don't list the source for your article but it appears to be Concerted effort to silence dissenters revealed in Climategate messages - National Climate Change | Examiner.com based on a search.

According to Wikipedia:
Quote:
Examiner.com is a media company based in Denver, Colorado, that operates a network of local news websites, allowing "pro–am contributors"[1][2] to share their city-based knowledge on a blog-like platform, in 238 markets throughout the United States and parts of Canada with two national editions, one for each country.[3][4][5][1]

Examiner.com is a division of Clarity Media Group, with the primary investor being billionaire businessman Philip Anschutz, owner of Anschutz Entertainment Group (AEG), Regal Cinemas, and other media and entertainment companies.[3][4][6] Examiner.com has over 55,000 contributors,[2] commonly referred to on the site as "Examiners."
To quote you....I'm sure you can do better than that
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:06 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

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Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
To quote you....I'm sure you can do better than that
Would you like to discuss the content of the post or the author?

I picked on PF, because they have a slight to severe bend to the left. I know nothing about that author from examiner.com. Is there something you know that would discredit what was said?

If you'd like I could go back and pick out the full content of the emails, but I am ready to assume that the quotes are correct. Can we start there?
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:18 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coyote View Post
The 'investigation' was done by a parliamentary (read government) hearing. That's the first ding.

Quote:
In the context of the sharing of data and methodologies, we consider that Professor Jones’s actions were in line with common practice in the climate science community. It is not standard practice in climate science to publish the raw data and the computer code in academic papers. …
Complete BS. I am required to show ALL of my data in my papers as an addendum. I wonder why climate science feels that they don't? I understand that in the lowly field of Chemistry we have such arcane rules. Transparency in science? Guess we should just forget about being scientific and just take someone's word for it...
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:25 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
Would you like to discuss the content of the post or the author?

I picked on PF, because they have a slight to severe bend to the left. I know nothing about that author from examiner.com. Is there something you know that would discredit what was said?

If you'd like I could go back and pick out the full content of the emails, but I am ready to assume that the quotes are correct. Can we start there?
The quotes are taken out of any meaningful sort of context - nowhere are the entire emails or what was being replied to.

How can you discuss them that way?

As to bias - that is a matter of opinion. Politifact has a pretty good reputation (except by those on the more extreme edges of either side who's views disagree with their analysis). Examiner.com is made up of contributors with no way of knowing anything about them, their qualifications, credibility etc. - in fact, I'm only guessing that is where you pulled it from since you didn't link to it. Wikipedia also states: Examiner.com has been criticized for its lack of verification and fact-checking of stories published on the site,[21] including accusations of plagiarism.[4][22]

You brought up the issue of source bias, but used a source that is itself suspect.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

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You brought up the issue of source bias, but used a source that is itself suspect.
/shrug

I didn't think that he made any assumptions or opinion. It was a statement of record.

Can you see the difference?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 11-01-2011, 10:33 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
/shrug

I didn't think that he made any assumptions or opinion. It was a statement of record.

Can you see the difference?
I can see an article from a dubious source with incomplete quotes from a variety of emails none of which are available in entirety and sequence.

And you claim it is a "statement of record"??????
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:40 PM
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Default Re: Skeptic Finds He Now Agrees Global Warming Is Real

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodo View Post
The 'investigation' was done by a parliamentary (read government) hearing. That's the first ding.
Simply because it's a government hearing isn't a "ding" since it's just as likely to biased in favor of skeptics given the industries and associated money involved.


Quote:
Complete BS. I am required to show ALL of my data in my papers as an addendum. I wonder why climate science feels that they don't? I understand that in the lowly field of Chemistry we have such arcane rules. Transparency in science? Guess we should just forget about being scientific and just take someone's word for it...
I am not a chemist, but I do work for an earth science department, and I've seen many published papers. None contain "raw data" or computer code though I suspect they are available on request. Likewise, my mother worked for years in research in heart disease and nutrition and published papers. Raw epidemiological data would have taken volumes in some cases.
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