And another problem with solar, or at least the future of solar, and other white elephant, green technologies is the requirement of rare earth metals. It doesn't get enough attention.

Rare earth elements on the endangered list | Energy | Green Living

So we're running out of rare earth elements, and they're needed for other technologies - not just green. Here's another problem with that.

What ?rare earth? metals mean to renewable energy

Thanks for this post. Today's world has made many people to be aware of green jobs. The risk is that scams may also be involved.

Wind. And I have used solar for years. It doesn't have to be active all the time to save billions in water heating and home heating.

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Truth, Justice and the American way

Wind? You must be joking. Maybe if you could harness the hot air from wind promoters. Other than that, there's lots of evidence wind can't survive without hefty subsidies (dwarfing oil), or regulatory and tax breaks. Overall it doesn't make economic, or even environmental sense.

T Boone Pickens backed off his much publicized pie in the sky, wind energy claims. When it came time to buck up he had to admit he couldn't make money on wind.

Pickens Plan no longer features wind energy - Business - Oil & energy - Going Green - msnbc.com

The sometimes ballyhooed wind energy of Denmark is a job killing, shell game that skyrockets the price of electricity, and doesn't actually make money.

http://www.cepos.dk/fileadmin/user_u...of_Denmark.pdf

They tried to move to wind in Minnesota. Problem was the wind turbines wouldn't work in cold weather.

Minnesota wind turbines won’t work in cold weather Hot Air

You run into more problems with wind when you start asking where are you going to put the wind farms, and where are you going to get the money for the mind-boggling expensive, yet required new electricity grid to customers.

Green.view: Mission: Transmission | The Economist

There is of course an argument. I've heard it.

Climate Progress's Romm Responds Unkindly to NewsBusters | NewsBusters.org

If I'm judging that debate your side not only loses, it looks silly.

Yes there is no way to use wind. I guess windmills don't work. What the hell were people thinking all these years putting the damn things up? I think most farmers use them to pump water. Better tell them they don't work. I use solar for water heating. I guess it's just my imagination that it works. Guess you have never heard of Geothermal heating and cooling pumps. Again this works to reduce or replace A/C. Hydroelectric seems to work too. Tidel systems can provide energy. You want to show some bad examples and leave it at that. But you would be wrong.

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Truth, Justice and the American way

Sure, they work. The problem is they're not economically viable on any kind of large scale. Their functionality depends on environmental cooperation, you need to build a new grid just to get the spurts they put out, and because they need to be augmented with fossil fuel energy, they may not even be that environmentally productive. At present "Green Jobs" from wind, or solar in a way they can pay for themselves are a myth. You're putting more money out than you're taking in, and it's government money. You might as well just pay welfare. Plus, as the Spanish study showed, you lose 2 real jobs for every welfare green job you create. Plus a lot of those jobs are temporary.

I have repeatedly stated that solar water heaters are a great thing....

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Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

Leftists and very small children don't seem to be able to understand that the Government isn't there to "fix" the economy, anymore than a tick is there to fix your dog.~Oftencold

Specific examples would be the automobile industry.

The same people were saying that seatbelts, smog control and fuel mileage would cost too much........and wouldn't work.

Well..........they were wrong.

It's also easy to point at any fledgling industry and say it won't work, before economy of scale kicks in.

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Economics lesson time.

The economy of scale only works on a profitable product and is incremental in it's application and benefits to the bottom line.

If you sell an item for a dollar and it costs .90 to create that product then you may be able to benefit from scaling up if the demand remains proportionate. That means you may be able to double your production and decrease the cost to .85 per unit. Since materials have a specific cost of obtaining them that doesn't mean you can double your production again and save another .05. You will be lucky to drop it another .01 or .02 but the supplier will determine that possibility as they won't go in the red just to sell you a lot more stuff really cheap. Because after all the economy of scale only works if there is a profit.

Now let's take that same product and say it costs 1.10 to make and sells for 1.00. You double the production and maybe your supplier saves you the same .05 so now you are losing .15 instead of .20 but you are still losing money.

Economy of scale is a myth in green energy right now. You MUST have a profitable product before you can make it more profitable. You can NEVER make a loser profitable by doubling down.

Thanks for the attempt at the economy lesson, but your assumptions are rife with holes.

You have totally ignored fixed costs, which are just that.....fixed.

As quantity increases, fixed costs stay generally the same...or are just marginally increased.

The economics of putting solar on a house, do not equate to a solar field supplying vastly more power.

Admittedly, Green still has along way to go....... both in scale and technology.

Just look at the computer industry 20 years ago, to get a clue of the potential.

If your attitude was prevalent back then, Moore would have had no basis for making his "law."


You can find a little more info here.

Economy Of Scale (click here)

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