Until 1976, marital rape was legal in every state in the United States.
Is marital rape a crime?
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Yay "traditional" marriage!

This seems like a good time to say again how thankful I am to be a woman living at this point in history.

The women who came before us, who worked and fought and suffered tirelessly to get us the vote, to get us respect, to get us ever-closer to equality... thank you.

I am glad to be doing my part to keep that fight alive and moving forward, but the truth is the hard work has already been done for us.

We are forever in your debt.

Marital rape issues have nothing to do with defining the traditional roles of marriage. Marital rape was a criminal issue and a women's rights issue that needed to be resolved much earlier than it was.

That being said, it is not the place of the government to define "tradition" on any issue, especially marriage whose history in religious practice. Further, the problem with the government defining traditional marriage in America is that we have a purposely pluralistic society. Traditions are specific to the groups practicing those traditions and to "define" traditions in a legal context that respects this pluralism is a nearly impossible task.

Why?

Please define what you mean by modern times.

Sayyy about 400 years or so. (guessing)


That is interesting. I have not found a reason that one of us should be the 'leader' in our relationship. To me a healthy relation ship should be equal.

That's you. I lead my household. But we work together. But someone has to take charge IMHO.


Only 35 40 years...

So respect wasn't implied in a marriage 45 years ago? I guess I got it all wrong then. The to have and to hold and for better or worse schpele must be a new thing.

actually that, again would be incorrect.

In what way?

What women have done for hundereds of yars would not be natural childbirth????

This is natural childbirth as explained to us, what are you referring to?
Why Have Natural Childbirth?

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Even if you hold the minority opinion, stick to your guns and go against the flow if that's what you truly believe. (CnRedd)

It would seem marriage is kind of advantageous, since we are at the top of the food chain. (Just an observation)
And some animals do also mate for life.
When they dig up bones of prehistoric humans they are found in family groups. In particular, I'm thinking of the Eskimo type people they found frozen. And in more recent history the people of Pompey. Where and when were we not (for reasons of safety and convenience) monogamous?

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History is full of cultures where there were plural marriages.

I'm not saying there aren't some Muslim cultures that practice it. But other than that, the Jews talked about having extra wives when one couldn't bear a child etc., but those were wealthy leaders who usually had more than one wife for political alliances.
When I Googled it all I got was the 1890 Manifesto (outlawing pluralism by Mormons).
Actually your comment has spurred me to an interesting quest. I'll get back to you on this for my own information and enjoyment as well as to prove or disprove a point!

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I wasn't even thinking about Muslims or Mormons or Jews even. Thanks for pointing them out too and I hope your information hunt is rewarding and you enjoy the search.

I was thinking about tribal cultures where women had more than one husband, Greek societies like Sparta, and some aboriginal societies where there is no concept of marriage at all.

It's hard to keep up with the debate on this subject...We go from observing animals to Greeks who practiced all kindsa weird stuff. If we spent enough time at it, I'm sure I could piece together enough research to justify a woman to marry a dolphin. But I prefer to just think she was crazy.
Man bites dog? No, woman weds dolphin - Weird news - MSNBC.com

__________________
Even if you hold the minority opinion, stick to your guns and go against the flow if that's what you truly believe. (CnRedd)

Yes, FX, when an undisciplined debater wanders from topic to topic, it's hard to build a cohesive argument about any singular focused topic, isn't it?

It's also frustrating when someone doesn't directly counter your argument on Topic A, but instead introduces an unrelated argument about Topic B as proof that your argument on Topic A is flawed, isn't it?

I'm glad you've come around to my way of thinking on this matter, FX.
I think I speak for at least a few other posters when I say that I look forward to more disciplined and on-topic replies from you from now on.