Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors - Page 4

aaronssongs · #31 (**permalink**) 07-01-2008, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer

Creating "a gay brain"???

You gotta find the link to that one! In fact, we insist that you do. Consider yourself "pressed".

The gay male brain, and why its different

Latest Gay Brain Study Scrutinized

You could have easily googled this yourself...but I realize you're not in the best of health..so I oblige.

AmericanDreamer · #32 (**permalink**) 07-01-2008, 09:52 PM

Sorry, aron, but no cigar for you here. The two links you have provided do not address this "gay brain" that you claim is created in the womb.

Your original comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronssongs

I agree. I read somewhere that hormonal changes in the mother brought about by stress can directly affect the fetus, bathing the fetal brain, and actually creating "a gay brain"...if pressed I can find the link.

You were pressed to provide the links, but the links you provided have nothing to do with your comment. Let me break it down for you. The first link you provided is an article that describes the thoughts of the author, with NO scientific or clinical data to support any of his thoughts, nor does it even mention anything about fetal brain development in the womb.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronssongs

The gay male brain, and why its different

"There is one brain part, called the anterior commisure, that's bigger in gay men's brains than in those of heterosexual males. Most of my thoughts here are about looking at what that might mean, and how it might appear".

The second link you provided shows that being gay is not "genetic", therefore your assertion that a "gay brain" is developed in the womb is faulty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronssongs

Latest Gay Brain Study Scrutinized

"The brains of these participants may have acquired a sexual response to these chemicals as the result of past sexual experience. In other word, the response described in this study could well have been learned."

"This study says nothing about homosexuality being innate (whether on a direct genetic or indirect, epigenetic hormonal-developmental basis)."

"Yet the press invariably editorializes, by implication or openly, that each new study somehow builds upon the last; that there exists a slowly but surely growing literature supporting the case that "homosexuality is biological," that "homosexuality is innate," "...genetic," "...unchangeable." Nothing could be further from the truth."

Did you read the articles before posting them?? You seem to have provided links that confirm that your theory, as entertaining as it may be, is not the least bit accurate. As the article states, homosexuality being biological or genetic can't be farther from the truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronssongs

You could have easily googled this yourself...but I realize you're not in the best of health..so I oblige.

My health is just fine. And yours?? Next time you google something make sure the articles you post support your assertions.

Once again, can you provide us the link that supports your claim that "hormonal changes in the mother brought about by stress can directly affect the fetus, bathing the fetal brain, and actually creating "a gay brain"? Since you have stated this, it is on you to back it up with sources.

We wait patiently...

saltwn · #33 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 01:15 AM

This article What Makes People Gay? answers my earlier question

Quote:

saltwn (paraphrased) : Do twins have different experiences in the womb?

And I think it answers or looks at a few of the other poster's questions/comments on this thread as well:

Quote:

What does this all mean? "Exposure to male hormones in utero dramatically raises the chances of being sexually attracted to females," Reiner says. "We can infer that the absence of male hormone exposure may have something to do with attraction to males."

Michael Bailey says Reiner's findings represent a major breakthrough, showing that "whatever causes sexual orientation is strongly influenced by prenatal biology." Bailey and Reiner say the answer is probably not as simple as just exposure to sex hormones. After all, the exposure levels in some of the people Reiner studies are abnormal enough to produce huge differences in sexual organs. Yet, sexual organs in straight and gay people are, on average, the same. More likely, hormones are interacting with other factors.

Canadian researchers have consistently documented a "big-brother effect," finding that the chances of a boy being gay increase with each additional older brother he has. (Birth order does not appear to play a role with lesbians.) So, a male with three older brothers is three times more likely to be gay than one with no older brothers, though there's still a better than 90 percent chance he will be straight. They argue that this results from a complex interaction involving hormones, antigens, and the mother's immune system.

By now, there is substantial evidence showing correlation - though not causation - between sexual orientation and traits that are set when a baby is in the womb. Take finger length. In general, men have shorter index fingers in relation to their ring fingers; in women, the lengths are generally about the same. Researchers have found that lesbians generally have ratios closer to males. Other studies have shown masculinized results for lesbians in inner-ear functions and eye-blink reactions to sudden loud noises, and feminized patterns for gay men on certain cognitive tasks like spatial perception and remembering the placement of objects.

New York University researcher Lynn S. Hall, who has studied traits determined in the womb, speculates that Patrick was somehow prenatally stressed, probably during the first trimester, when the brain is really developing, particularly the structures like the hypothalamus that influence sexual behavior. This stress might have been based on his position in the womb or the blood flow to him or any of a number of other factors not in his mother's control. Yet more evidence that identical twins have womb experiences far from identical can be found in their often differing birth weights. Patrick was born a pound lighter than Thomas.

Taken together, the research suggests that early on in the womb, as the fetus's brain develops in either the male or female direction, something fundamental to sexual orientation is happening. Nobody's sure what's causing it. But here's where genes may be involved, perhaps by regulating hormone exposure or by dictating the size of that key clump of neurons in the hypothalamus. Before researchers can sort that out, they'll need to return to the question of whether, in fact, there is a "gay gene."

I don't know if any of studies talked about were a part of these observations, but I found it a fascinating and concise way of explaining the ongoing research in layman's terms.

fxashun · #34 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 07:32 AM

Oooh wee...This sounds like my kinda topic. The "gay brain" and hormonal fluctuations has been my theory for a long time now. Ever since I saw the study where they created gay rats.
The Science Of Sexual Orientation, Researchers Focus On Twins - CBS News

Not to mention this recent story that I found..
The gay culture war is about to turn chemical. - By William Saletan - Slate Magazine

NewsDaily: Gay men and straight women share brain detail

They all support the hormonal anomaly theory that I have been supporting for a while. Considering hormones in pregnant women are already screwy, and homosexuality has been linked to happen more frequently in certain families..
Mom's Genetics Could Produce Gay Sons | LiveScience

Further research may find that there are certain traits about certain women that cause unnatural or even natural hormonal fluctuation that manifests as homosexuality or [other] in their offspring. What triggers the fluctuation is another bit of research that might come in handy.

My $.02.

aaronssongs · #35 (**permalink**) 07-02-2008, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanDreamer

Sorry, aron, but no cigar for you here. The two links you have provided do not address this "gay brain" that you claim is created in the womb.

Your original comment:You were pressed to provide the links, but the links you provided have nothing to do with your comment. Let me break it down for you. The first link you provided is an article that describes the thoughts of the author, with NO scientific or clinical data to support any of his thoughts, nor does it even mention anything about fetal brain development in the womb.

"There is one brain part, called the anterior commisure, that's bigger in gay men's brains than in those of heterosexual males. Most of my thoughts here are about looking at what that might mean, and how it might appear".

The second link you provided shows that being gay is not "genetic", therefore your assertion that a "gay brain" is developed in the womb is faulty.

"The brains of these participants may have acquired a sexual response to these chemicals as the result of past sexual experience. In other word, the response described in this study could well have been learned."

"This study says nothing about homosexuality being innate (whether on a direct genetic or indirect, epigenetic hormonal-developmental basis)."

"Yet the press invariably editorializes, by implication or openly, that each new study somehow builds upon the last; that there exists a slowly but surely growing literature supporting the case that "homosexuality is biological," that "homosexuality is innate," "...genetic," "...unchangeable." Nothing could be further from the truth."

Did you read the articles before posting them?? You seem to have provided links that confirm that your theory, as entertaining as it may be, is not the least bit accurate. As the article states, homosexuality being biological or genetic can't be farther from the truth.

My health is just fine. And yours?? Next time you google something make sure the articles you post support your assertions.

Once again, can you provide us the link that supports your claim that "hormonal changes in the mother brought about by stress can directly affect the fetus, bathing the fetal brain, and actually creating "a gay brain"? Since you have stated this, it is on you to back it up with sources.

We wait patiently...

When you are predisposed to support a particular position, experience tells us that "factual data" hardly moves one in another direction...believe whatever you choose to believe. Just because you, in particular, believe it, doesn't make it so.
I, personally, recall being attracted to men, at the tender age of 4, for certain....and I have no recollection of any molestation happening to me. Where do you suppose I got my proclivity? From my own imagination?
Four years old. Almost proof positive, that sexual orientation is determined at an early age, if not, before birth.

Idealogically Promiscuous · #36 (**permalink**) 07-03-2008, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Here's something just for fun:

Channel 4's Gay-O-Meter

Well this sucked. It says I'm only 26% gay. Oh well, gay is gay.

cnredd · #37 (**permalink**) 07-03-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous

Well this sucked. It says I'm only 26% gay. Oh well, gay is gay.

I guess it works the same way as when someone says if you have one drop of black blood in ya, you're black...

faithful_servant · #38 (**permalink**) 07-03-2008, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Idealogically Promiscuous

Well this sucked. It says I'm only 26% gay. Oh well, gay is gay.

Go out and buy yourself a silk thong, that should make you feel gayer...

Idealogically Promiscuous · #39 (**permalink**) 07-03-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by faithful_servant

Go out and buy yourself a silk thong, that should make you feel gayer...

I just streamed Bette Midler, Barbara Streisand, and Cher on Pandora for the rest of the day. I think I am not truly in touch with my inner sister.

crazyflamingos · #40 (**permalink**) 07-03-2008, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Channel 4's Gay-O-Meter

Damn! I'm a freakin' stereotype! I scored 90% !

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