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Civil Rights Discuss Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn What I want to know is how a hormone in the womb can be a non ...

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Old 06-30-2008, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

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What I want to know is how a hormone in the womb can be a non shared exposure when we're talking about twins. What? Did one of them go out for a beer and there was a hormone storm while the other one was home alone?
This is just one of the many THEORIES. The question really is about self perception until we have a definitive answer, and the general perception is that the homosexual didn't choose to be homosexual, it was factors beyond their control. All of the real science points to a combination of nature and nurture which are both outside the control of a child who grows up to be gay.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

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What I want to know is how a hormone in the womb can be a non shared exposure when we're talking about twins. What? Did one of them go out for a beer and there was a hormone storm while the other one was home alone?
Actually, I've always wondered the same thing when I hear that gays are caused by domineering mothers and absent fathers.

What about all the straight siblings?!
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Old 06-30-2008, 11:06 AM
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Post Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

From the article:
Individual-specific environmental factors may include biological processes such as different hormone exposure in the womb -- not societal attitudes, family or parenting which are shared by twins, the researchers say.
This explicitly conflicts with anybody's ideas that SOCIETY is the "environmental factor".
Gays have always been around. We've typically just been more closetted, and that's not the same thing as not being there.
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Old 06-30-2008, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

I knew about the Greeks and the Romans, but I was looking for a prehistorical accounting (a same sex couple clasped in an embrace found eons later by archeologist's?) But here is what I have come up with so far:

Quote:
The samurai often called it bi-do, “the beautiful way”, and guarded the tradition jealously. Ijiri Chusuke, in 1482 argued:

“In our empire of Japan this way flourished from the time of the great master Kobo. In the abbeys of Kyoto and Kamakura, and in the world of the nobles and the warriors, lovers would swear perfect and eternal love relying on no more than their mutual good will. Whether their partners were noble or common, rich or poor, was absolutely of no importance… In all these case they were greatly moved by the spirit of this way. This way must be truly respected, and it must never be permitted to disappear.” Gay love in Japan - World History of Male Love
As an adjunct to the following poem, here is a link to a paper on the subject written by M. Jimmie Killingsworth, Texas A&M University, and presented at the Modern Language Association Convention, San Francisco: Whitman's "Calamus": A Rhetorical Prehistory of the First Gay American--J. Killingsworth

Quote:
In paths untrodden,
In the growth by margins of pond waters,
Escaped from the life that exhibits itself,
From all the standards hitherto published -- from the pleasures, profits, conformities,
Which too long I was offering to feed my Soul;
Clear to me now, standards not yet published -- clear to me that my Soul,
That the Soul of the man I speak for, feeds, rejoices only in comrades;
Here, by myself, away from the clank of the world,
Tallying and talked to here by tongues aromatic,
No longer abashed -- for in this secluded spot I can respond as I would not dare elsewhere,
Strong upon me the life that does not exhibit itself, yet contains all the rest,
Resolved to sing no songs to-day but those of manly attachment,
Projecting them along that substantial life,
Bequeathing, hence, types of athletic love

****
Afternoon, this delicious Ninth Month, in my forty-first year,
I proceed, for all who are, or have been, young men,
To tell the secret of my nights and days,
To celebrate the need of comrades.
Calamus poems : from Leaves of Grass (1860)
Then there is the ritual of some Native American tribes to determine if a boy is two-spirited. If so he is educated in womens work and men's tasks and is often a highly respected healer or medicine man, being mentored by a medicine man who is often also a two-spirit.The two-spirit tradition in Native American experience

There is much in the world of visual art to support the fact homosexual relationships have been around forever: Male Love and Gay Sex in Art - World History of Male Love

I apologize to those interested in more historical accounts of Lesbian love. I did a lot of reading and googling to get this much. I'm tired.

Here's something just for fun:

Channel 4's Gay-O-Meter
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Old 06-30-2008, 07:34 PM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

it says I'm 43% gay - congratulations! you've scored right in the middle and you're a happy well-adjusted homo guy!

does this mean I'm versatile?
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:14 PM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

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it says I'm 43% gay - congratulations! you've scored right in the middle and you're a happy well-adjusted homo guy!

does this mean I'm versatile?
It mean you're gay...
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Old 06-30-2008, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

If homosexuality is genetic, how does it continue to be passed from generation to generation? A few "deviants" (not trying to use a term with negative connotations, simply indentifying those who deviate from thier "natural" tendencies) from their homosexual nature cannot carry on a demographic trend that is pretty consistent (2-3%).

If someone is a homosexaul, they have less of a chance of passing on a supposed homosexaul gene, than a heterosexual. Over time, homosexuality would simply breed itself out of existence, but oddly enough it hasn't.
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:07 PM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

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Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
If homosexuality is genetic, how does it continue to be passed from generation to generation? A few "deviants" (not trying to use a term with negative connotations, simply indentifying those who deviate from thier "natural" tendencies) from their homosexual nature cannot carry on a demographic trend that is pretty consistent (2-3%).

If someone is a homosexaul, they have less of a chance of passing on a supposed homosexaul gene, than a heterosexual. Over time, homosexuality would simply breed itself out of existence, but oddly enough it hasn't.

Genetics isn't that cut and dried. Have you ever heard of recessive genes? I have four heterosexual brothers and sisters. One or all of whom may pass the "gay gene" on to their offspring. (Plus, many gay people do have children.)
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Old 06-30-2008, 09:19 PM
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Post Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
If homosexuality is genetic, how does it continue to be passed from generation to generation? A few "deviants" (not trying to use a term with negative connotations, simply indentifying those who deviate from thier "natural" tendencies) from their homosexual nature cannot carry on a demographic trend that is pretty consistent (2-3%).
1)
2) Italian geneticists may have explained how genes apparently linked to male homosexuality survive, despite gay men seldom having children. Their findings also undermine the theory of a single “gay gene”.

The researchers discovered that women tend to have more children when they inherit the same - as yet unidentified - genetic factors linked to homosexuality in men. This fertility boost more than compensates for the lack of offspring fathered by gay men, and keeps the “gay” genetic factors in circulation.

Survival of genetic homosexual traits explained - 13 October 2004 - New Scientist
5 selected items - PubMed Results


Quote:
Originally Posted by faithful_servant
If someone is a homosexaul, they have less of a chance of passing on a supposed homosexaul gene, than a heterosexual. Over time, homosexuality would simply breed itself out of existence, but oddly enough it hasn't.
Gays are beneficial to society, improving its survivability aspects.
When the society over-procreates, gays can help raise some of the offspring without adding additional over-burdening of society by having their own kids.
If society were under-procreated, gays could help by having kids themselves. Just because we're not attracted doesn't mean our reproductive parts don't function.
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Old 07-01-2008, 02:38 AM
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Default Re: Homosexuality: Genetics and random factors

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Gays are beneficial to society, improving its survivability aspects.
When the society over-procreates, gays can help raise some of the offspring without adding additional over-burdening of society by having their own kids.


No...wait...

Hold on...seriously...

Melissa Ethridge just called...she said to go screw yourself...
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