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Civil Rights Discuss Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 I skimmed the article, partially cause I thought I previously read the story. He should not ...

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Old 01-11-2008, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I skimmed the article, partially cause I thought I previously read the story.
He should not be fired for online articles...
... but if he used the company's resources and time (etc...), tell him he can do it on his own time and dime...
First, one would think that if it wasn't for his opinion and truly because of using company materials, he'd be written up instead of fired...If this was a second or third violation, then maybe...But if this is "first offense", the firing is crap...

Also, the defendant would (should) ask the company in trial how it was found that he used company materials...and if that procedure was done for every employee or was he being singled out...

Third, if he could show other employees to have used company materials in any other thing not company related, he should demand their immediate firings, too to show he's not unique...
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
First, one would think that if it wasn't for his opinion and truly because of using company materials, he'd be written up instead of fired...If this was a second or third violation, then maybe...But if this is "first offense", the firing is crap...

Also, the defendant would (should) ask the company in trial how it was found that he used company materials...and if that procedure was done for every employee or was he being singled out...

Third, if he could show other employees to have used company materials in any other thing not company related, he should demand their immediate firings, too to show he's not unique...
I think volume and content are also important...

An email to daddy telling him that timmy needs to be picked up from school is quite different than this guys use/abuse of the system.
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Old 01-11-2008, 10:53 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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I think volume and content are also important...

An email to daddy telling him that timmy needs to be picked up from school is quite different than this guys use/abuse of the system.
Nope...

The company's own words betray them...

Quote:
In court documents, Allstate said Barber was not fired for his beliefs, but for using company resources for his personal activities.
If you can show me their manual that says "personal activities" on one level is OK but "personal activities" on another is not, then you'd have a point...

But if it doesn't specifically say that the company has discretion to decide something is OK and another thing is not, then they have no leg to stand on...

As pointed out in the article...

Quote:
Barber also stated that he made no more personal use of his laptop than his co-workers did.
If this is a true statement, all co-workers should receive the same punishment/non-punishment...

If one person sends 50 humorous non-offensive pictures with no action taken, and another person sends ONE email that says "I hate Puerto Ricans", the comapny HAS TO BE HONEST and say that the latter person was punished due to content...

AllState is NOT saying that here...They say their ONLY grievance is using company materials...

And if they truly believed that, then they HAVE to do it across the board...
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Nope...

The company's own words betray them...

If you can show me their manual that says "personal activities" on one level is OK but "personal activities" on another is not, then you'd have a point...

But if it doesn't specifically say that the company has discretion to decide something is OK and another thing is not, then they have no leg to stand on...

As pointed out in the article...

If this is a true statement, all co-workers should receive the same punishment/non-punishment...

If one person sends 50 humorous non-offensive pictures with no action taken, and another person sends ONE email that says "I hate Puerto Ricans", the comapny HAS TO BE HONEST and say that the latter person was punished due to content...

AllState is NOT saying that here...They say their ONLY grievance is using company materials...

And if they truly believed that, then they HAVE to do it across the board...
Well I think emergency information such as picking up your child should be treated differently than other 'non-essential' email.

There is a difference in intent and a difference in use of resources. But you are right. All non-emergency/non-essential use of resources should be punished. Equally? I think not. Volume makes a difference. One guy sending one email should get slapped on the wrist. One guy sending 100 emails should be gone.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:11 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Well I think emergency information such as picking up your child should be treated differently than other 'non-essential' email.

There is a difference in intent and a difference in use of resources. But you are right. All non-emergency/non-essential use of resources should be punished. Equally? I think not. Volume makes a difference. One guy sending one email should get slapped on the wrist. One guy sending 100 emails should be gone.
I agree, but remember my argument is how AllState is reacting...

If they truly believe the content was the reason for the firing, then SAY SO...

Lying on the reason is going to cause more problems than this...they are intentionally trying to cover-up their true feelings by putting out bullcrap reasoning...
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:22 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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I agree, but remember my argument is how AllState is reacting...

If they truly believe the content was the reason for the firing, then SAY SO...

Lying on the reason is going to cause more problems than this...they are intentionally trying to cover-up their true feelings by putting out bullcrap reasoning...
Right. Not saying they don't have cause to fire him, but they need to better articulate that cause... "This coupled with performance blah blah blah...." But you're right. That's not what they have done and they have essentially dug themselves a hole because of it.
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Right. Not saying they don't have cause to fire him, but they need to better articulate that cause... "This coupled with performance blah blah blah...." But you're right. That's not what they have done and they have essentially dug themselves a hole because of it.
Bingo...

But now to the actual firing...

Does AllState have a policy that points out their emplyess cannot have the opinion that being gay is immoral?...If so, they better point that out pretty damn quick because if not, then thay are attacking the employee BECAUSE of his beliefs...

There's a chance that AllState itself is showing an anti-Christian policy by not ALLOWING employees to hold beliefs they may not agree with...

I believe that's the whole reason for the lawsuit...

Imagine if a boss didn't mind someone sending out emails saying "The Red Sox are great!" but fires the guy who writes "The Yankees are better."...
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Old 01-11-2008, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
There's a chance that AllState itself is showing an anti-Christian policy by not ALLOWING employees to hold beliefs they may not agree with...
There is nothing "anti-Christian" about refusing to accept antiquated bigotries and petty prejudices that harm others.

There are many people who are Christians who do not feel it's particularly Christian to engage in such activities.

All this Christian victimhood is really stupid. (Not just from you, but in general. So far, the only right that Çhristians have lost a teensy tiny toehold on is the right to trample the rights of others)
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Bingo...

But now to the actual firing...

Does AllState have a policy that points out their emplyess cannot have the opinion that being gay is immoral?...If so, they better point that out pretty damn quick because if not, then thay are attacking the employee BECAUSE of his beliefs...

There's a chance that AllState itself is showing an anti-Christian policy by not ALLOWING employees to hold beliefs they may not agree with...

I believe that's the whole reason for the lawsuit...

Imagine if a boss didn't mind someone sending out emails saying "The Red Sox are great!" but fires the guy who writes "The Yankees are better."...
Well, we are making assumptions beyond the facts presented. I don't see an anti-Christian bias...
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Old 01-12-2008, 12:14 AM
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Default Re: Man who sued over gay marriage question on bar exam apologizes

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Originally Posted by tristanrobin View Post
There is nothing "anti-Christian" about refusing to accept antiquated bigotries and petty prejudices that harm others.
The old adage from Voltaire...

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend your right to say it."...

It is irrelevant if you, me, or AllState finds an issue with the article...You CAN'T fire someone over their beliefs...

And AllState held the position that it didn't...They won't even admit that they did...

I know YOU would...

Read Title VII...
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