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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Largest ICE raid in a decade at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by GetAClue Of course it is the pursuit of profit that drives Capitalism. That is why we have ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2019, 10:14 PM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
Of course it is the pursuit of profit that drives Capitalism. That is why we have laws in place based on our Constitution which was intended for a moral and just people to constrain immoral actors.
Yes Agreed.
I'm addressing the idea, that some promote, that capitalism is a "self correcting" mechanism that will lead to moral (if not patriotic) behavior.

the personal and overtly Christian morals of the founders and country as a whole gave some structure for Capitalism.
And the laws address the bad actors. Law based on morals derived from biblical foundations btw.

(But not much of anything constitution though constraining immoral commerce, or bad actors though)
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:39 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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If they both have all the proper docs, then the employer is in the clear.
But if they are never requested or never checked?

But again we come back the morals vs money question don't we.
How much is it worth to be fair in hiring? How much is it worth to keep "illegals" out of the country?
Some people don't care much about fairness or the country... as long as they can make a dollar.
What "proper docs" are you referring to? Every employee has to provide a SSN at hiring. Fakes are readily available. Unless the job involves driving the employer cannot ask for a driver's license. We have seen the firestorm that erupted from attempting to add a question about citizenship to the census, at the very least an employer is courting tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees defending themselves in court from lawsuits by attempting to act as an ICE agent.

The employer can only use the E-Verify system after they hire. Under the blame the employer policy they would be subject to harsh penalties if they guessed wrong. But why let that get in the way of virtue signaling.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-27-2019, 09:45 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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The tyranny and oppression is expecting employers to act as ICE agents especially when they have no means to verify a person's immigration status prior to hiring.

If a qualified black person with a Jamaican accent applies for the job along with a white person with no accent in an environment where employers are severely punished for hiring illegals, who is more likely to be hired? We both know the answer.
You should quit spewing that lie that employers are acting as ice agents by checking to see if potential employees are who they say they are and can legally work here. People who spew such a lie like that look like they have their lips planted on the cocks of anti-American scum who hire illegals. Its because of these anti-American scum that draw the vast majority of people who come here illegally and you think they shouldn't be required to verify the identities and legal status of potenial employees ? You sound just as bad as Shiva who thinks there should be a two year statue of limitations on illegal immigration. We get it you think anti-American scum should be allowed to hire illegals instead of Americans. But don't don't sit and pretend you are somehow against it when you are spewing the lie that somehow its requiring companies to do ICE's job by verifying the identities and checking the legal status of employees. Using your logic employers who drug test employers are doing the DEA's job, employers who run credit checks on employees are doing the credit card company's job, employers who verify their employee's social security number are doing the IRS's job and employers who run back ground checks are doing a detective or police's job.
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Old 08-27-2019, 09:49 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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What "proper docs" are you referring to? Every employee has to provide a SSN at hiring. Fakes are readily available. Unless the job involves driving the employer cannot ask for a driver's license.
Where did you hear that lie from? Every job that I have ever worked at required either a state issued ID or driver's license and none of those jobs required driving.
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Old 08-27-2019, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Still no solution for how the employer is supposed to avoid hiring illegal aliens. Even if E-Verify is used it can only be used after the person is hired. The employer can only find out after the offense has been committed.

According to your hyperbole the employer ought to be fined or jailed for committing an offense they had no way to avoid. Slinging insults is no solution. We don't want the employer to be able to run an E-Verify check on anybody they want, identity theft is already a massive problem.

If the employer is going to be severely punished for unknowingly hiring illegal immigrants with no means of detecting them then they are going to hire John over Juan just for self preservation. Is that what you want?
My solution is if you are caught hiring illegals then you go to prison and you are subject to the same asset seizure and forfeiture laws that drug dealers, gang members and other criminals who profit from illegal activities are subject to. The employer can run a check on the social security number to see if the person is who they say they are. The employer runs every possible check to make sure the applicant is who they say they are. We change the e-verify laws to allow for per-employment checks of potential employees. And we make sure this applies to companies that use contract and sub-contract labor as well. The first couple of anti-American scumbags to go to prison and lose their business and other assets for hiring illegals will send a loud and clear message to other employers and they will do any and everything to make sure the people they hire are not illegal immigrants.



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Securing the border along with tracking and deporting visa overstays will go a long way towards solving the problem of illegal alien hiring without discouraging hiring as a potential criminal offense.
Cracking down on the anti-American scum who hire illegals will go even further. Because if employers did not hire illegals then most illegals would not be here.
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Old 08-28-2019, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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My solution is if you are caught hiring illegals then you go to prison and you are subject to the same asset seizure and forfeiture laws that drug dealers, gang members and other criminals who profit from illegal activities are subject to. The employer can run a check on the social security number to see if the person is who they say they are. The employer runs every possible check to make sure the applicant is who they say they are. We change the e-verify laws to allow for per-employment checks of potential employees. And we make sure this applies to companies that use contract and sub-contract labor as well. The first couple of anti-American scumbags to go to prison and lose their business and other assets for hiring illegals will send a loud and clear message to other employers and they will do any and everything to make sure the people they hire are not illegal immigrants.





Cracking down on the anti-American scum who hire illegals will go even further. Because if employers did not hire illegals then most illegals would not be here.
Good luck getting unlimited SSN verification through Congress. We can't even get them to agree to requiring identification for voting or a citizenship question on the census. Unlimited SSN verification is an open invitation to invasion of privacy and identity theft. We ought to all oppose that.

It's easy to demand employers must spend thousands of dollars and wait weeks for an independent investigation verifying someone's immigration status for a job on the chicken processing line while politicians create sanctuary cities and states welcoming illegal aliens to the community. Millions of so-called law abiding illegal aliens live with virtually no realistic fear of deportation. But the employer is supposed to root them out or face harsh penalties.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2019, 06:36 PM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Good luck getting unlimited SSN verification through Congress. We can't even get them to agree to requiring identification for voting or a citizenship question on the census. Unlimited SSN verification is an open invitation to invasion of privacy and identity theft. We ought to all oppose that.

It's easy to demand employers must spend thousands of dollars and wait weeks for an independent investigation verifying someone's immigration status for a job on the chicken processing line while politicians create sanctuary cities and states welcoming illegal aliens to the community. Millions of so-called law abiding illegal aliens live with virtually no realistic fear of deportation. But the employer is supposed to root them out or face harsh penalties.
So your solution is to pretend it can't happen so anti-American scum can continue to hire illegals.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2019, 07:54 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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So your solution is to pretend it can't happen so anti-American scum can continue to hire illegals.
We drastically reduce the flow of illegal aliens by securing the Southern border and deporting visa overstays. As President Trump has already shown significant progress towards these goals can be made in spite of Democrat obstruction.

Once the inflow is reduced or eliminated ICE raids on work places have real meaning. Instead of jailing employers for the "crime" of offering someone a job with no effective means of verifying their immigration status prior to hiring, the Federal government first fulfills its responsibility to enforce immigration laws.

The venomous rage that labels employers anti American scum and insists they be imprisoned for inadvertently hiring illegal immigrants is counterproductive. Explain why an employer needing lots of low skill workers and under threat of being jailed and losing their business wouldn't relocate off shore where they could hire a janitor without risk of going to jail and losing their business.

Terrorizing employers with threats of jail and seizures is a defacto sanctioning of discrimination against anyone "foreign" out of self defense. Worse, it leads to tyrannical measures like a national ID card paving the way for even more invasive government tracking of us all.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 09-02-2019, 12:33 PM
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Hey hey, my my, rock and roll shall never die
my my, hey hey AZRightwinger and Jamesrage should always stay.

Loving the discussion you two are having here. It's why I do political message boards.
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Old 09-02-2019, 01:11 PM
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Loving the discussion you two are having here. It's why I do political message boards.
It's been a good discussion and they have been respectful to each other despite the heated nature of the topic.
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