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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Largest ICE raid in a decade at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by cnredd A couple of reasons... 1) Unless it's a "one building" company, most companies have their HQ ...

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Old 08-09-2019, 01:10 PM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
A couple of reasons...

1) Unless it's a "one building" company, most companies have their HQ or human resources in a different facility...And "yes" there should be a day of reckoning with them soon IMO...

2) Did the illegals have false documentation that made it look like they were legal? If so, the people who hire may be gullible as all get out, but not criminal...
Employers are required to report a social security number for all employees but not contractors. They aren't required to run employees SSN through E-verify. The employer can be sued if E-verify erroneously reports the SSN is bad and they fire the employee. The check can only be made after the employee has been hired. It's an undue burden on the employer to act as an ICE agent.

Of course the most effective solution is a national ID which just happens to make it far easier for the Federal government to track your movements and activities.
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Old 08-13-2019, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Employers are required to report a social security number for all employees but not contractors. They aren't required to run employees SSN through E-verify. The employer can be sued if E-verify erroneously reports the SSN is bad and they fire the employee. The check can only be made after the employee has been hired. It's an undue burden on the employer to act as an ICE agent.

Of course the most effective solution is a national ID which just happens to make it far easier for the Federal government to track your movements and activities.

Its not a undue burdon on employers. They can piss test you, run credit checks and other **** on potential employees. Then they shoud most certainly do everything they can to verify if a person applying for a job is who they say they are and legal to work in the US. Saying it isn't the employer's responsibility is just a cop out.
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Old 08-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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We can't ask about citizenship on the census but employers are supposed to act as ICE agents. There are 11 million or more illegal aliens living in the US with more arriving every day but employers are responsible for screening them out of their payrolls.

The current verification system, e-verify, can only be used after someone has been hired. If the results turn out to be inaccurate, the employer pays the price.

Employing illegal aliens ought to still be illegal but until we can secure the Southern border and begin a serious deportation program it's unjust to require employers to act as ICE agents.
No its not unjust to require employers to verify that the people working for them are legal. Its because of scum hiring illegals that act as the main magnet that draw people here illegally. You can discourage most illegal immigration by requiring employers to not hire illegals and by severely punishing those that do hire illegals with prison time, loss of assets and business licenses being revoked.
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Old 08-16-2019, 07:58 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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No its not unjust to require employers to verify that the people working for them are legal. Its because of scum hiring illegals that act as the main magnet that draw people here illegally. You can discourage most illegal immigration by requiring employers to not hire illegals and by severely punishing those that do hire illegals with prison time, loss of assets and business licenses being revoked.
Strong rhetoric but short on practicality. The employer can only use E-Verify after they hire someone too late to avoid committing the crime. Like IRS tax advice there is no guarantee of accuracy for E-Verify results. The employer is held liable for errors. Do you suppose this might make the employer more likely to hire John over Juan? Sure. Bingo, the employer gets sued for discrimination. But hey, it's not an undue burden to make an employer play ICE agent when they hire.

Just recently our divine Federal judiciary ruled the administration hadn't said "mother may I" before attempting to revive a question about citizenship on the census so therefore it couldn't be included. In this hostile environment employers are supposed to not only ask about citizenship but verify it through some unspecified means before hiring.

None of this comment should be interpreted as endorsing the hiring of illegals but until we can bring the Federal government around to doing a much better job of enforcing immigration laws it is an undue burden to expect employers to act as ICE agents when Congress can't even summon the will to withhold Federal funding from so-called sanctuary cities, counties and states.
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Old 08-16-2019, 08:59 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Strong rhetoric but short on practicality. The employer can only use E-Verify after they hire someone too late to avoid committing the crime. Like IRS tax advice there is no guarantee of accuracy for E-Verify results. The employer is held liable for errors. Do you suppose this might make the employer more likely to hire John over Juan? Sure. Bingo, the employer gets sued for discrimination. But hey, it's not an undue burden to make an employer play ICE agent when they hire.

Just recently our divine Federal judiciary ruled the administration hadn't said "mother may I" before attempting to revive a question about citizenship on the census so therefore it couldn't be included. In this hostile environment employers are supposed to not only ask about citizenship but verify it through some unspecified means before hiring.
The employer is not playing ice agent by checking to see if their potential employees are who they say they and can legally work here in the country. Its what every good patriotic employer does. If they can't run a e-verify check until after someone is hired then that needs to change and until then they still need to do the check. The employer needs to do every possible check to make sure the person they hire is who they say they are and can legally work in the US. IF they don't then they should be criminally punished in order to encourage other employers to run checks. As I said before its because of these scum who hire illegals why we have the 11 to 20 million plus illegals in this country. Most of them aren't here for the free education for their kids, the food stamps they can get by proxy for any kids they pop out while in the coutry, the free WIC and so on. Its the scumbags who hire them why they come here. To say it isn't their job to do these checks is absurd and flies in the fact of logic. If you don't want companies hiring illegals then requiring them to verify the identities and legal status of the people working for them is how you do it.


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None of this comment should be interpreted as endorsing the hiring of illegals.
But is endorsing the hiring of illegals when you think employers shouldn't be checking the identities and legal status of potential employees. These people are the main reason we have the 11 to 20 million illegals here in the first place. You want the hiring of illegals to stop then you must actually punish those who hire illegals. If you do want the hiring of illegals to continue then you don't actually punish those who hire illegals. Its as simple as that.

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but until we can bring the Federal government around to doing a much better job of enforcing immigration laws it is an undue burden to expect employers to act as ICE agents
It is not an undue burden on employers to check the identities and legal status of the people they hire. To claim it is a undue burden is to be pro-hiring of illegals. It doesn't matter if congress decides to build a wall, hire more border agents or what ever. Employers need to be forced to stop hiring illegals. When that can be done most illegal immigration will stop, most illegals will go back to their countries if they can't get jobs here. You seem to fail to understand the scum who hire illegals are the main reason these illegals are here in the first place or you do understand and you don't care and want the hiring of illegals to continue.


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when Congress can't even summon the will to withhold Federal funding from so-called sanctuary cities, counties and states.
Its not congress summoning the will.Its that many in congress are anti-American pieces of shit who think we should allow illegal immigration, who think illegal immigration shouldn't be a crime, and that we should give legal status/amnesty to illegals. Its because of these anti-America scum why that won't deny funding to sanctuary cities and enforce our anti-illegal immigration laws on the books.
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Old 08-16-2019, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
No its not unjust to require employers to verify that the people working for them are legal. Its because of scum hiring illegals that act as the main magnet that draw people here illegally. You can discourage most illegal immigration by requiring employers to not hire illegals and by severely punishing those that do hire illegals with prison time, loss of assets and business licenses being revoked.
Just went back and checked my handy copy of the Constitution. It charges the federal government with protecting the borders. One of the very few of its obligations. Once here it's not the business of business to do the feds job for them. Most of them do. But there is no obligation.

Anybody besides me find it interesting that those who claim the responsibility lies with the individual are the ones who demand we open our doors and let 'em all in?

Years back we did not have this problem. California needed crop pickers the feds determined the number needed, vetted them, and once the crops were picked sent them back to Mexico. Same with Roosevelt-Truman during WW II. We needed workers, we issued permits. Once the soldiers returned home the foreign workers were sent home. If you were a foreigner wanting citizenship you applied through the front door.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

I am sure that there are companies that knowingly hire illegal's as cheap labor and pay them very low wages under the table. When these companies are busted, they should be held accountable. However, unknowingly hiring a couple of people here and there who did show up with the proper credentials, should not be a crime if they notify authorities when the company discovers the error.

I think it is dangerous to lump all companies into a single category. But when a company has hundreds of illegals working in a single facility, you can just about bet they are fully aware of the situation and should be investigated and prosecuted if it can be proven they were complicit.
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Old 08-16-2019, 02:06 PM
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Just went back and checked my handy copy of the Constitution. It charges the federal government with protecting the borders. One of the very few of its obligations. Once here it's not the business of business to do the feds job for them. Most of them do. But there is no obligation.
The scum that hire illegals are the main reason people come here illegally.Sure the Constitution requires the federal to protect our borders.However it doesn't say anything about when people are here illegally working. Nor does it say its only the federal government's job.

Quote:
Anybody besides me find it interesting that those who claim the responsibility lies with the individual are the ones who demand we open our doors and let 'em all in?

Most democrats who claim employers should be held accountable for hiring illegals are lying their asses off. Because when was the last time Nancy Pelosi passed a stand alone bill punishing employers who hire illegals for the senate to look over and give Trump to sign?Never. They are just like some of the forum members in this thread whining how it's not an employer's job to verify the identities and legal status of the people working for them and falsely claiming to not want companies to hire illegals.


Quote:
Years back we did not have this problem. California needed crop pickers the feds determined the number needed, vetted them, and once the crops were picked sent them back to Mexico. Same with Roosevelt-Truman during WW II. We needed workers, we issued permits. Once the soldiers returned home the foreign workers were sent home. .
Yes we did have this problem years back. Luckily back then we had presidents and elected officials who actually cared for Americans enough to kick out illegals twice. In 1929 there was Mexican Repatriation and Operation wetback in 1954.Both were highly successful programs at deporting illegals.
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Old Yesterday, 12:30 PM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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The employer is not playing ice agent by checking to see if their potential employees are who they say they and can legally work here in the country. Its what every good patriotic employer does. If they can't run a e-verify check until after someone is hired then that needs to change and until then they still need to do the check. The employer needs to do every possible check to make sure the person they hire is who they say they are and can legally work in the US. IF they don't then they should be criminally punished in order to encourage other employers to run checks. As I said before its because of these scum who hire illegals why we have the 11 to 20 million plus illegals in this country. Most of them aren't here for the free education for their kids, the food stamps they can get by proxy for any kids they pop out while in the coutry, the free WIC and so on. Its the scumbags who hire them why they come here. To say it isn't their job to do these checks is absurd and flies in the fact of logic. If you don't want companies hiring illegals then requiring them to verify the identities and legal status of the people working for them is how you do it.


But is endorsing the hiring of illegals when you think employers shouldn't be checking the identities and legal status of potential employees. These people are the main reason we have the 11 to 20 million illegals here in the first place. You want the hiring of illegals to stop then you must actually punish those who hire illegals. If you do want the hiring of illegals to continue then you don't actually punish those who hire illegals. Its as simple as that.



It is not an undue burden on employers to check the identities and legal status of the people they hire. To claim it is a undue burden is to be pro-hiring of illegals. It doesn't matter if congress decides to build a wall, hire more border agents or what ever. Employers need to be forced to stop hiring illegals. When that can be done most illegal immigration will stop, most illegals will go back to their countries if they can't get jobs here. You seem to fail to understand the scum who hire illegals are the main reason these illegals are here in the first place or you do understand and you don't care and want the hiring of illegals to continue.



Its not congress summoning the will.Its that many in congress are anti-American pieces of shit who think we should allow illegal immigration, who think illegal immigration shouldn't be a crime, and that we should give legal status/amnesty to illegals. Its because of these anti-America scum why that won't deny funding to sanctuary cities and enforce our anti-illegal immigration laws on the books.
Lots of fiery rhetoric and hyperbole but no solutions.

Currently employers are required to use a verification system called I-9 for their employees residency. Compliance with I-9 costs US employers over 13 million man hours annually. Mandatory E-Verify will add to this cost, perhaps substantially. It takes DHS an average of 8 working days to resolve a preliminary non verify during which the employer will not train the employee or risk a lawsuit by hiring a replacement. But hey, what's cost and delays in hiring compared to hyperbolic rhetoric.

Let's see, E-Verify can be circumvented with SSN from deceased Americans or children and it is a lengthy procedure to correct false reports of intelligibility but let's require it anyway.

Worse, tighter E-Verify checks will require at minimum gathering more biometric data into a Federal database that can be used for whatever purpose bureaucrats dream up.

https://www.cato.org/blog/serious-problems-e-verify

Instead of making it harder for employers to hire American workers, the focus ought to be on enforcing our immigration laws. Reducing the population of illegal aliens living in the US will automatically reduce the number of people employed illegally.
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Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Largest ICE raid in a decade

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Lots of fiery rhetoric and hyperbole but no solutions.

Currently employers are required to use a verification system called I-9 for their employees residency. Compliance with I-9 costs US employers over 13 million man hours annually. Mandatory E-Verify will add to this cost, perhaps substantially. It takes DHS an average of 8 working days to resolve a preliminary non verify during which the employer will not train the employee or risk a lawsuit by hiring a replacement. But hey, what's cost and delays in hiring compared to hyperbolic rhetoric.

Let's see, E-Verify can be circumvented with SSN from deceased Americans or children and it is a lengthy procedure to correct false reports of intelligibility but let's require it anyway.

Worse, tighter E-Verify checks will require at minimum gathering more biometric data into a Federal database that can be used for whatever purpose bureaucrats dream up.

https://www.cato.org/blog/serious-problems-e-verify

Instead of making it harder for employers to hire American workers, the focus ought to be on enforcing our immigration laws. Reducing the population of illegal aliens living in the US will automatically reduce the number of people employed illegally.
All I see are nothing pathetic excuses in your post for allowing anti-American scum to hire illegals. The key to drastically reducing the number of illegal immigrants in this country is cracking down on the anti-American scum who hire illegals.
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