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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by cnredd God, I hate the media... Headline... Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license ...

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Old 05-30-2019, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
God, I hate the media...

Headline...

Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

Story...

If you refuse to "renew" your license, you are NOT "losing" it...

The media intentionally made this headline to look as if the license it being taken away from them, instead of reality, which is they are getting rid of it voluntarily...
Please clarify the 'they' that are 'getting rid of it voluntarily' that you note.

If The State of Missouri is refusing to renew PP's license, that is not voluntary on PP's behalf.....
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:58 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Please clarify the 'they' that are 'getting rid of it voluntarily' that you note.

If The State of Missouri is refusing to renew PP's license, that is not voluntary on PP's behalf.....
The PP Clinic is resisting some changes and investigation interviews required by the State for the renewal. So the State is refusing , on those grounds, to renew the license.
Here is a good link. Pay attention to the entire CBS news interview that pops up. It is definitely from the Pro-Choice perspective but both sides of the question are well represented. The fasts are well laid out.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/planned...ve-2019-05-28/
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:05 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
By denying the license for part of what they offer, removes the ability of a woman to receive the service at an affordable cost.

Until the day you, or a loved one, is forced into the position where a choice does need to be made, the lack of that option will always seem like nothing much.
I'm sorry, but I have to throw the BS flag on this one. You referred to taking away the women's choice. Sorry, but those women made their choice at conception. They were there and were willing participants in the act that resulted in a pregnancy. No one forced them into anything, they chose that road themselves.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
The PP Clinic is resisting some changes and investigation interviews required by the State for the renewal. So the State is refusing , on those grounds, to renew the license.
Here is a good link. Pay attention to the entire CBS news interview that pops up. It is definitely from the Pro-Choice perspective but both sides of the question are well represented. The fasts are well laid out.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/planned...ve-2019-05-28/
Not to quibble over semantics, but I believe that we need to quit allowing the left to define the language. I too am what I would call Pro-Choice. The difference being that the choice is made at the time of conception. After that, anyone the promotes or even accepts abortion is Pro-Death of Infants, or Anti-Life.

And to all those that take exception to my stance, spare me the tired old "what about when the life of the mother is at stake" or "rape and incest'. Sorry, but in today's age of medical science, abortion is almost never required to save the life of the mother. And in the cases of "rape and incest", I would say that is nothing but a ruse and I'm quite sure that those would account for such a small fraction of the number of abortions as to be considered nothing more than a rounding error.
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Old 06-03-2019, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Not to quibble over semantics, but I believe that we need to quit allowing the left to define the language. I too am what I would call Pro-Choice. The difference being that the choice is made at the time of conception. After that, anyone the promotes or even accepts abortion is Pro-Death of Infants, or Anti-Life.

And to all those that take exception to my stance, spare me the tired old "what about when the life of the mother is at stake" or "rape and incest'. Sorry, but in today's age of medical science, abortion is almost never required to save the life of the mother. And in the cases of "rape and incest", I would say that is nothing but a ruse and I'm quite sure that those would account for such a small fraction of the number of abortions as to be considered nothing more than a rounding error.
Interesting point abut "rape" and Incest. Roe v Wade was based on a Texas case where the woman wanted an abortion after being impregnated by her boyfriend. She could not legally have one in Texas except for "rape" so she falsely claimed that as the cause. She was denied.

Her case was then taken up by pro choice advocates then developed the case to include Choice and a civil right.

In other words, the entire Roe V Wade came from an incident, based on a lie.

The Problem with the abortion issue today is it is no longer possible to base reasonable acceptance by the majority on the idea of Life at conception. As Much as I would like to see that definition, it simply will not sell today. But I believe most Americans can accept abortion up to the point of heartbeat or pain sensory. About six weeks. That is a reasonable time to establish pregnancy and deliberate the situation Personally, Medically, and with Authorities. After that the Zygote is a person, no longer disposable for convenience, and Mom has to live with it.

This approach does not eliminate abortion on demand. Nor does it eliminate abortion for convenience,, ie [I]"Birth Control." [/I ]But is seems to me at least a bit more "humane." And for that reason should be bitter but acceptable to pro-lifers. It takes religious objection out of the argument. Frankly it shouldn't be there because it is too easily dismissed by the pro-life left who will never accept "personhood" of the fetus. Constitutionally, there is no moment in gestation when we can claim the soul has entered the mass of human flesh. Religion(s) is therefore a mute argument.

If the government cannot promote a religious belief, it cannot be expected to respond to one either. Therefore the solution to the argument must be on the basis of humane. We do not torture convicted murderers but take great care to put them to permanent sleep with as little discomfort as possible. Why then do we accept the concept of ripping viable live babies apart in the womb?
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Old 06-03-2019, 11:27 AM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Originally Posted by GetAClue View Post
And in the cases of "rape and incest", I would say that is nothing but a ruse and I'm quite sure that those would account for such a small fraction of the number of abortions as to be considered nothing more than a rounding error.
So in that one conception out of, say one million, the victim has to carry an unwanted and unplanned baby all the way? Or is the murder at an early stage okay?
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:09 PM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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So in that one conception out of, say one million, the victim has to carry an unwanted and unplanned baby all the way? Or is the murder at an early stage okay?
I don't believe that I implied that it was. I was just pointing out that the left demands exceptions for such things that are so rare as to be of insignificance. However, if I were in the business of negotiating to end abortions as we know them, I would say that if we can limit abortion on demand to just those instances that rarely ever occur and in exchange end abortion as a form of birth control, I would take that route knowing that abortions was then be very rare. I would also mandate that they take place within a very short time frame from conception. If I could make that deal today, I would. It would greatly reduce abortions from what they are now to almost none.
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Old 06-03-2019, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

I got it. I think my dodo brain got ahead of my fumble fingers.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

Back to the subject, PP no longer has a functioning abortion center in Missouri.
They have appealed but until that is over, no abortions at PP.
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Old 06-03-2019, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Missouri's last abortion clinic says it may lose its license this week

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Interesting point abut "rape" and Incest. Roe v Wade was based on a Texas case where the woman wanted an abortion after being impregnated by her boyfriend. She could not legally have one in Texas except for "rape" so she falsely claimed that as the cause. She was denied.

Her case was then taken up by pro choice advocates then developed the case to include Choice and a civil right.

In other words, the entire Roe V Wade came from an incident, based on a lie.

The Problem with the abortion issue today is it is no longer possible to base reasonable acceptance by the majority on the idea of Life at conception. As Much as I would like to see that definition, it simply will not sell today. But I believe most Americans can accept abortion up to the point of heartbeat or pain sensory. About six weeks. That is a reasonable time to establish pregnancy and deliberate the situation Personally, Medically, and with Authorities. After that the Zygote is a person, no longer disposable for convenience, and Mom has to live with it.

This approach does not eliminate abortion on demand. Nor does it eliminate abortion for convenience,, ie [I]"Birth Control." [/I ]But is seems to me at least a bit more "humane." And for that reason should be bitter but acceptable to pro-lifers. It takes religious objection out of the argument. Frankly it shouldn't be there because it is too easily dismissed by the pro-life left who will never accept "personhood" of the fetus. Constitutionally, there is no moment in gestation when we can claim the soul has entered the mass of human flesh. Religion(s) is therefore a mute argument.

If the government cannot promote a religious belief, it cannot be expected to respond to one either. Therefore the solution to the argument must be on the basis of humane. We do not torture convicted murderers but take great care to put them to permanent sleep with as little discomfort as possible. Why then do we accept the concept of ripping viable live babies apart in the womb?
doctors in texas could not abort a baby at all when my co worker was young. she never had children because the state of texas made her carry a dead baby for three months. her husband told me about the false hope and anguish they suffered till they finally accepted that they would remain childless. it was heart breaking.
butthe law is a right to privacy so i dont see how you even get to know what the reason is.
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