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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by AZRWinger The law is an external entity that places all sorts of restrictions and obligations on the ...

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Old 06-28-2019, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The law is an external entity that places all sorts of restrictions and obligations on the "internal" actors in an event. Abortionists have to engage in the brutal dehumanization of the unborn child as a perverse rationalization for liquidating them on demand.

It's unlikely someone who cannot tell the difference between a pet rock and an unborn child can be enlightened by rationale discussion. Unless your pet rock is a precious stone or made of gold you can skip sending it to me.
Rational discussion.

The fetus can only occupy the woman's womb based upon the voluntary consent of the woman. No rights exist if they impose an involuntary obligation upon another person.

If the woman refuses to grant consent to the fetus to occupy her womb then she can "evict" the fetus from her body. She can have the fetus surgically removed unharmed and intact. That's not an act of aggression against the fetus because it causes no harm to the fetus. Whether the fetus survives or dies once outside of the womb is left to nature and no one is responsible for the death, if it occurs, because the death will be from natural causes.

Laws that force the woman to carry the fetus during pregnancy are a violation of the Right of Self of the Woman that owns her own body and that no one else has a right to impose their will upon.
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

You just love to debate baby killing. But your argument went awry and you
were to gutless to respond to THIS:
http://www.politicalwrinkles.com/new...tml#post972105

Quote:
Cleveland Clinic Performs Its First In Utero Fetal Surgery

JUNE 19, 2019 / NEWS RELEASES

Darrell Cass, M.D., leads multispecialty team of clinicians to repair spina bifida birth defect in a nearly 23-week-old fetus

Amanda Kalan, M.D., (left) and Darrell Cass, M.D., (right) perform in utero spina bifida surgery.

Cleveland Clinic has successfully performed its first in utero fetal surgery to repair a spina bifida birth defect in a nearly 23-week-old fetus.

A multispecialty team of clinicians performed the surgery in February, and the baby, a girl, was later delivered by caesarean section near full term June 3, making it northern Ohio’s first surgery of its kind. Mother and daughter are doing well.

The surgical team, led by Darrell Cass, M.D., director of Fetal Surgery in Cleveland Clinic’s Fetal Center and a specialist who has performed more than 160 fetal surgeries since 2002, included Amanda Kalan, M.D., medical director of Cleveland Clinic’s Special Delivery Unit; Violette Recinos, M.D., and Kaine Onwuzulike, M.D., both pediatric neurosurgeons; Francine Erenberg, M.D., fetal cardiologist; and McCallum Hoyt, M.D. and Tara Hata, M.D., obstetric and pediatric anesthesiologists.

Spina bifida is a birth defect that is most often discovered during the routine anatomy scan typically performed when a fetus is around 18 weeks old. The condition affects the lowest part of the spine and occurs when the neural tube does not fully close, causing the backbone that protects the spinal cord not to form as it should. This often results in damage to the spinal cord and nerves and can even lead to brain damage.

Spina bifida can affect a child’s lower leg strength and their ability to walk and run, as well as their ability to go to the bathroom and urinate adequately. According to the CDC, approximately 1,645 babies are born with spina bifida each year in the United States.


Click here to download an animation of the in utero fetal surgery to repair a spina bifida birth defect.

During the fetal repair surgery, a caesarean section-like incision is made and the mother’s uterus is exposed. An ultrasound is then used to locate the placenta and fetus. The uterus is opened 4.5 cm and the back of the fetus is exposed, showing the spina bifida lesion. The surgeons then carefully suture several individual layers of tissue (myofascia, dura and skin) in order to cover the defect. After the uterus is closed back up, the fetus remains in the womb for the remainder of the pregnancy and is ultimately born by caesarean section.

“By successfully repairing the defect before birth, we’re allowing this child to have the best possible outcome and significantly improve her quality of life,” said Dr. Cass. “There are different measures of quality in determining success for fetal repairs and in this particular case, all metrics for maximum quality were achieved.”

The success of this surgery was based on two metrics – restoration of normal brain structure and the gestational age at birth.


Click here to download high-definition video of the of the in utero spina bifida surgery.

Prior to fetal repair surgery, the back of the brain herniates down the spinal column – known as an Arnold-Chiari malformation – causing cerebrospinal fluid to back up and build pressure that can cause brain damage. Typically babies with spina bifida need shunts to decompress the built-up fluid after they are born. When a successful fetal surgery repair is completed and the brain is examined one month later, the malformation is reversed and the back of the brain returns to a normal appearance, which was observed in this case.

The surgery was also successful by the second metric – when the baby is born. The average birth after fetal surgery repair is 34 weeks gestation. In this case, the baby was born at 36.5 weeks gestation – exceeding the average birth time by more than two weeks and giving the baby more time to develop and grow.

“Although the surgery was a success, spina bifida is never cured,” said Dr. Cass. “Moving forward, the baby will require ongoing supportive care provided by a multidisciplinary team of caregivers in our Spina Bifida Clinic, which will involve neurology, urology, orthopedics, developmental pediatrics and neurosurgery, among other specialists.”

The surgical team from Cleveland Clinic’s Fetal Center worked for more than a year to prepare for this first surgery, including making site visits to other centers, conducting simulations, and consulting with other experts in the field.

“I am honored to work with this amazing team of clinicians and to see our efforts come to fruition after preparing for so long,” said Dr. Cass, who joined Cleveland Clinic as director of Fetal Surgery in October 2017 to build its fetal surgery program after co-founding and co-directing Texas Children’s Fetal Center in Houston for 17 years. “Families in this region now have more options when it comes to making these types of decisions and we are thrilled to be able to provide the care needed for these complex cases.”

Editor’s Note: High-definition video of the surgery can be downloaded here. Additional video and B-roll are available by request from the Cleveland Clinic News Service. The images below are downloadable and provided for media use only.
And what does this do for the Left’s argument that there is no living being in there, just a clump of cells? Will Shiva our resident MALE pro-abortion poster weigh in on this thread?
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Old 06-28-2019, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

History will judge the Left harshly and with horror at their total devotion to abortion up until the moment of birth.
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Old 06-28-2019, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

Aside from the topic a bit, I am curious what those people against all abortions say should be done about an ectopic pregnancy. The baby is alive during an ectopic attachment, but is doomed to die regardless of any intervention, and can cause the death of the mother. I say that in an ectopic pregnancy, or a rape pregnancy, a surrogate could be employed to carry the baby to term, if a transplant is successful, but in the case of rape, the mother has to relinquish all rights to the baby if she wishes not to carry.
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Old 06-28-2019, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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History will judge the Left harshly and with horror at their total devotion to abortion up until the moment of birth.
History will judge the left and some on the right that allowed and just gave lip service to the rights and life of the unborn.

But folk should realize that history won't be the only judge.
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Old 06-30-2019, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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Originally Posted by AZRWinger View Post
The law is an external entity that places all sorts of restrictions and obligations on the "internal" actors in an event. Abortionists have to engage in the brutal dehumanization of the unborn child as a perverse rationalization for liquidating them on demand.

It's unlikely someone who cannot tell the difference between a pet rock and an unborn child can be enlightened by rationale discussion. Unless your pet rock is a precious stone or made of gold you can skip sending it to me.
The fact that you give sentinence to something that is NOT a 'baby', or the fact that you call it a 'baby' to play to emotions, pretty much does call for the pet rock analogy.

Once the fetus can survive outside the womb without basic life support, it is a baby. Unfortunately, this is something that you may choose to not accept, but it is fact.
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Old 06-30-2019, 01:59 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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The fact that you give sentinence to something that is NOT a 'baby', or the fact that you call it a 'baby' to play to emotions, pretty much does call for the pet rock analogy.

Once the fetus can survive outside the womb without basic life support, it is a baby. Unfortunately, this is something that you may choose to not accept, but it is fact.
as far as sentience goes, some researchers don't think humans are that until months to a year old or more.
So is Ok to kill them still?

in or out of the womb they are still separate human beings.
And you just don't kill someone who's on life support, especially if you know they'll recover FULLY in a few months.

As far as it NOT being a baby,.. umm.. how is that "a fact" exactly?
a few simply examples shows that's false.
When a women miscarries, she and the family say she "lost "the baby".. not the pet rock.
Also when women and families and doctors and nurses look at an ultrasound they don't call it a "pet rock" they call it "A baby" or "YOUR baby"... or "a BOY" or "a GIRL".
With all the proper attendant emotions at play naturally.
It's UNnatural and counter intuitive, to try and flip a switch and pretend that unborn children are NOT babies.

When the FACT is they are nothing less than babies, children, kids.
Using technical terms like fetus doesn't negate fact that it's accurate and common to use the term baby to describe unborn children.
They are simply living growing human beings. Like each of us.

All the denials and euphemisms to the contrary are frankly dark BS
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Old 06-30-2019, 06:19 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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Old 06-30-2019, 06:23 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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Old 06-30-2019, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: Here is what adults conceived in rape have to say about abortion

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