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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court at the Political Forums; here we go again, tolerant LBGTQXYZs suing people, trying to put people in JAIL, for not helping them promote/celebrate their ...

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Old 08-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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Default Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

here we go again, tolerant LBGTQXYZs suing people, trying to put people in JAIL, for not helping them promote/celebrate their sinful "lifestyles".

Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

Quote:

Under threat of up to six months jail time, two Phoenix artists, Joanna Duka and Breanna Koski, owners of Brush & Nib Studio, will be in court Monday seeking to stop a sweeping city ordinance from forcing them to design and create custom artwork expressing messages that violate their core beliefs.

The civil liberties lawsuit challenges the Phoenix ordinance because it illegally controls artistic expression—violating the freedom of Duka and Koski to choose which messages they will convey and refrain from conveying.

“All Americans should be free to live and work according to their deeply held beliefs without fear of imprisonment and other penalties,” said ADF Senior Counsel Jonathan Scruggs, who will argue before the court Monday. “The government must allow artists to make their own decisions about which messages they will promote. Breanna and Joanna are happy to design custom art for all people; they simply object to being forced to pour their heart, soul, imagination, and talent into creating messages that violate their conscience.”

In 2017, a lower court ruled that Phoenix can use a criminal law to force Duka and Koski to create messages that violate their deeply held beliefs and to ban them from explaining how their religious beliefs affect the artwork they can create. The argument on Monday relates to an appeal of that ruling.

Duka and Koski specialize in creating custom artwork using hand painting, hand lettering, and calligraphy to celebrate weddings and other events. The women’s religious convictions guide them in determining which messages they can and cannot promote through their custom artwork.

The city’s ordinance forces the two artists to use their artistic talents to celebrate and promote same-sex marriage in violation of their beliefs. It also bans them from publicly communicating how their Christian belief that God designed marriage as a union between one man and one woman affects the custom artwork they can create. The law threatens up to six months in jail, $2,500 in fines, and three years of probation for each day that there is a violation.

In the pre-enforcement challenge to Phoenix City Code Section 18-4(B), a public accommodation law, ADF attorneys argue that the ordinance violates the Arizona Constitution and Arizona’s Free Exercise of Religion Act. Phoenix officials have interpreted the ordinance to force artists, like Duka and Koski, to create objectionable art, even though they decide what art they can create based on the art’s message, not the requester’s personal characteristics.

ADF attorneys also represent cake artist Jack Phillips and Masterpiece Cakeshop in another artistic freedom case, which is currently before the U.S. Supreme Court. The court heard oral arguments in Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission on Dec. 5.
https://arizonadailyindependent.com/...peal-to-court/
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Old 08-11-2018, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
here we go again, tolerant LBGTQXYZs suing people, trying to put people in JAIL, for not helping them promote/celebrate their sinful "lifestyles".

Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court



https://arizonadailyindependent.com/...peal-to-court/
I trust these women get paid for this artistic expression? If so they must not break civil rights by excluding a group. Or they could always artistically express as a gift! Either way they choose there would be no problem between church and state.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:21 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I trust these women get paid for this artistic expression? If so they must not break civil rights by excluding a group. Or they could always artistically express as a gift! Either way they choose there would be no problem between church and state.
it's not a group... it's a MESSAGE they are refusing to promote.
they have and do serve "the group" and encourage them to purchase their many other products.

it's not church state problem anymore than it would be than if black calligrapher were asked to write a invitations to a KKK meeting.
He... and Christian women... have a right to refuse certain jobs that are offensive personally and/or to their faith.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
I trust these women get paid for this artistic expression? If so they must not break civil rights by excluding a group. Or they could always artistically express as a gift! Either way they choose there would be no problem between church and state.
the horrifying thing i see over and over in many people's replies to actions against Christians like this is the --HOHUM Christians going to jail. well they deserve it, the new law is really god anyway. They should just bow to the state and homosexual ideals and like it-- replies.

It's like watching a slow motion train wreck for Christians. Where the end is Christians who live out their faith in silence, are outlaws, and unemployable or are in jail. And the the rest of U.S. and even some "loving Christians" are OK with Christians brothers and sister in jail and jobless becasue of their beliefs.

But for some reason i think there's going to be more push back on this.
I certainly pray so.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:43 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
it's not a group... it's a MESSAGE they are refusing to promote.
they have and do serve "the group" and encourage them to purchase their many other products.

it's not church state problem anymore than it would be than if black calligrapher were asked to write a invitations to a KKK meeting.
He... and Christian women... have a right to refuse certain jobs that are offensive personally and/or to their faith.
your analogy is screwed up.
A black calligrapher cannot by law refuse to do work for a white customer for the reason that he is white.
these women cannot refuse to promote their products or services to white persons cause of the same reason=civil rights.
And neither the black calligrapher nor these women can refuse to serve or promote their products on the basis of sexual orientation. Because of civil rights.
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Old 08-11-2018, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
your analogy is screwed up.
A black calligrapher cannot by law refuse to do work for a white customer for the reason that he is white.
these women cannot refuse to promote their products or services to white persons cause of the same reason=civil rights.
And neither the black calligrapher nor these women can refuse to serve or promote their products on the basis of sexual orientation. Because of civil rights.
for some reason you're missing the point.
I'm not sure how or maybe why.
but we can't go much farther if you can't really acknowledge what i said here.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:19 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
for some reason you're missing the point.
I'm not sure how or maybe why.
but we can't go much farther if you can't really acknowledge what i said here.
by my reading of the article or your posts, I still don't understand if they are getting paid or compensated (ad type promotion) for their art.
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Old 08-11-2018, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
by my reading of the article or your posts, I still don't understand if they are getting paid or compensated (ad type promotion) for their art.
lets put it this way.
Christian Joe has a t-shirt printing shop and also has printed t-shirts for sale in his store. One shirt is of a dog with a hat.
one day 2 demonstrative homosexuals comes in and say.
"we want to buy that shirt."
Christian Joe says "GREAT, here you go."
sale made.

next week 5 demonstrative homosexuals come in and say
"we want to buy 20 shirts just like that dog shirt but with a CAT on it. can you do it Christian Joe?"
Christian Joe say "YES!. Great."
makes the sale.

the next week 2 of the same people enter the store and asks Christian Joe
"please print up 30 shirts for the "Gays Against God"...GAG... rally that we're the promoters for."
Christian Joe says,
"nope sorry. I'm not printing that. no sale. how about a Horse with a hat shirt instead?"
Bottom line, Christian Joe does NOT have a problem selling his work or services to homosexuals as a group or individually. But Christian Joe does have a problem selling items or services for projects, events or ideas that Christian Joe considers sinful or offensive.
You can't be compelled into speech you don't agree with.
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Aristotle

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 08-11-2018 at 05:05 PM..
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:15 PM
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Default Re: Facing Threat Of Jail Time, Faithful Phoenix Artists Appeal To Court

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
lets put it this way.
Christian Joe has a t-shirt printing shop and also has printed t-shirts for sale in his store. One shirt is of a dog with a hat.
one day 2 demonstrative homosexuals comes in and say.
"we want to buy that shirt."
Christian Joe says "GREAT, here you go."
sale made.

next week 5 demonstrative homosexuals come in and say
"we want to buy 20 shirts just like that dog shirt but with a CAT on it. can you do it Christian Joe?"
Christian Joe say "YES!. Great."
makes the sale.

the next week 2 of the same people enter the store and asks Christian Joe
"please print up 30 shirts for the "Gays Against God"...GAG... rally that we're the promoters for."
Christian Joe says,
"nope sorry. I'm not printing that. no sale. how about a Horse with a hat shirt instead?"
Bottom line, Christian Joe does NOT have a problem selling his work or services to homosexuals as a group or individually. But Christian Joe does have a problem selling items or services for projects, events or ideas that Christian Joe considers sinful or offensive.
You can't be compelled into speech you don't agree with.
What are these artists doing and refusing to do. verbatim please
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