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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by GottaGo Addressing the bold. Well, if we want to move goal posts .... if the Doctor knew ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 07-18-2018, 12:17 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Addressing the bold.

Well, if we want to move goal posts ....

if the Doctor knew the rules regarding having to use preferred pronouns when he accepted the job, he accepted the conditions of the job, and therefore violated the conditions he accepted.

If the rules were instituted AFTER accepting the position, then he should have filed a grievance and made it know PRIOR to violating the rules, and petition for an exception.

While on a base level, I feel the idea that someone who demands to be called a pronoun other than what they present as (for most of us, that is VISUALLY) is bit excessive. If they are in process of transitioning physically, then I can understand they would want to be referred to as their goal gender, but once again, they would likely be presenting that way.

Bottom line, I feel the Doctor's actions were wrong.
do you think the Dr should be able to work at all anymore? Since the laws are going national? Should workers in ever field be forced to use the proper pronouns Or else not have a job. If not what situation is it OK not to use the proper pronouns?
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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do you think the Dr should be able to work at all anymore? Since the laws are going national? Should workers in ever field be forced to use the proper pronouns Or else not have a job. If not what situation is it OK not to use the proper pronouns?
I have no problem with the doctor working. As others posted, if he disagrees with the requirement, then he should fight it, not just refuse to use them.

As with all things, you pick your battles. Calling somebody by a pronoun you disagree with is really, really small on the grand scale.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I have no problem with the doctor working. As others posted, if he disagrees with the requirement, then he should fight it, not just refuse to use them.

As with all things, you pick your battles. Calling somebody by a pronoun you disagree with is really, really small on the grand scale.
OK for you. But can you answer my previous questions?
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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OK for you. But can you answer my previous questions?
I believe I did. If you don't like the requirement, fight it on the level that will make a difference. Otherwise, if it is law, is it worth the price to fight it?

There are many laws I don't like, but some aren't worth fighting for the cost of it on me and my life. Proper pronouns falls into that category, IMO.

The ones that I feel are worth fighting for, may cost me, but I accept that cost, and if it includes losing my job over it, then so be it.

Onl;y the Doctor knows if the fight is worth it to him, and since he values his religion so highly, then he has a choice to make, doesn't he.
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Old 07-18-2018, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
do you think the Dr should be able to work at all anymore? Since the laws are going national? Should workers in every field be forced to use the proper pronouns Or else not have a job? If not what situation is it OK not to use the proper pronouns?
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I believe I did. If you don't like the requirement, fight it on the level that will make a difference. Otherwise, if it is law, is it worth the price to fight it?

There are many laws I don't like, but some aren't worth fighting for the cost of it on me and my life. Proper pronouns falls into that category, IMO.

The ones that I feel are worth fighting for, may cost me, but I accept that cost, and if it includes losing my job over it, then so be it.

Onl;y the Doctor knows if the fight is worth it to him, and since he values his religion so highly, then he has a choice to make, doesn't he.
"do you think the Dr should be able to work at all anymore?"
so to make it fit the questions your answer is
NO, he shouldn't work if he refuses to compromise his faith.
NO, No work until he can maybe one day change the rules.
YES, he can work if he would just compromise his faith.
(...and such compromise from YOUR POV is not a hardship he should be concerned about. thank you pastor GottaGo...)[/I]
Should workers in every field be forced to use the "proper" pronouns Or else not have a job?
I can only assume the same answers as above.


if not what situation is it OK not to use the proper pronouns?

you give no alternative but compromise or submission to the law so I can only assume that there ARE NO situations that you'd make any allowances for.

based on my questions and your answer, this is what i'm hearing from you.
Wearing a Yellow Star on your clothes is not a hardship. Folks have to pick their battles.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 07-18-2018 at 05:58 PM..
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
"do you think the Dr should be able to work at all anymore?"
so to make it fit the questions your answer is
NO, he shouldn't work if he refuses to compromise his faith.
NO, No work until he can maybe one day change the rules.
YES, he can work if he would just compromise his faith.
(...and such compromise from YOUR POV is not a hardship he should be concerned about. thank you pastor GottaGo...)[/I]
Should workers in every field be forced to use the "proper" pronouns Or else not have a job?
I can only assume the same answers as above.


if not what situation is it OK not to use the proper pronouns?

you give no alternative but compromise or submission to the law so I can only assume that there ARE NO situations that you'd make any allowances for.

based on my questions and your answer, this is what i'm hearing from you.
Wearing a Yellow Star on your clothes is not a hardship. Folks have to pick their battles.
Mr. Wonder, you are not seeing things that are right there in front of you.

I didn't make this Law. Therefore, either abide by it, work around it with non-gendered 'pro-nouns', and fight it on the same level. By fighting it but not violating it, you are NOT compromising your faith.

But, if you choose not to fight it on a legal level, then you must accept the consequences if you do not abide by it.

How much more clearer do I have to make my response???
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Old 07-19-2018, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
Addressing the bold.

Well, if we want to move goal posts ....

if the Doctor knew the rules regarding having to use preferred pronouns when he accepted the job, he accepted the conditions of the job, and therefore violated the conditions he accepted.

If the rules were instituted AFTER accepting the position, then he should have filed a grievance and made it know PRIOR to violating the rules, and petition for an exception.

While on a base level, I feel the idea that someone who demands to be called a pronoun other than what they present as (for most of us, that is VISUALLY) is bit excessive. If they are in process of transitioning physically, then I can understand they would want to be referred to as their goal gender, but once again, they would likely be presenting that way.

Bottom line, I feel the Doctor's actions were wrong.
I disagree. The Doctor's actions were not WRONG. They perhaps were illegal or against policy. But, to many, they were not WRONG.

Medically speaking Gender is not manmade, it is genetic. So as a practitioner of medicine, this doctor was absolutely CORRECT.
However, I do agree that he chose to stay employed, he violated either his faith or his obligations to his employer. Legally speaking, and only in that context, he should be fired. But I would then add for that, we should all be fired up. Because the same liberal logic is coming here to America.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:45 AM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
I have no problem with the doctor working. As others posted, if he disagrees with the requirement, then he should fight it, not just refuse to use them.

As with all things, you pick your battles. Calling somebody by a pronoun you disagree with is really, really small on the grand scale.
If that was true then there wouldn't be a law requiring a doctor to call someone by a pronoun they are not. This thread wouldn't exist.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
I disagree. The Doctor's actions were not WRONG. They perhaps were illegal or against policy. But, to many, they were not WRONG.

Medically speaking Gender is not manmade, it is genetic. So as a practitioner of medicine, this doctor was absolutely CORRECT.
However, I do agree that he chose to stay employed, he violated either his faith or his obligations to his employer. Legally speaking, and only in that context, he should be fired. But I would then add for that, we should all be fired up. Because the same liberal logic is coming here to America.
It's the fact that they went against policy, and he knew it. When you do that, you have accept the consequences, regardless of how strongly you believe in your position. In that respect, his actions were wrong.

I truly hope such 'logic' is stopped before it hits these shores, or we, as a people, will have to make some choices also. Personally, I have no issue with addressing people as they prefer, though if I've known them prior to a change it may take a time or two. It doesn't go against any beliefs I hold, but I can understand how it may bother some.

That being said, I am sure that said doctor has held to his religious beliefs rigorously in all other aspects of his life.
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Old 07-19-2018, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Christian doc is SACKED by the Govt 4 refusing 2 ID patients by preferred gender

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Originally Posted by GottaGo View Post
It's the fact that they went against policy, and he knew it. When you do that, you have accept the consequences, regardless of how strongly you believe in your position. In that respect, his actions were wrong.

I truly hope such 'logic' is stopped before it hits these shores, or we, as a people, will have to make some choices also. Personally, I have no issue with addressing people as they prefer, though if I've known them prior to a change it may take a time or two. It doesn't go against any beliefs I hold, but I can understand how it may bother some.

That being said, I am sure that said doctor has held to his religious beliefs rigorously in all other aspects of his life.


You had me until the last sentence. Frankly,I think it wrong to snarkily suggest and make judgements about the Doctor "held to his religious beliefs rigorously in all aspects...." With tat unnecessary veneficial piety ,,,;your slip is showing
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