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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by mr wonder Should come down to "Religious groups". Religious protection and exemptions. When the state is required ...

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Old 06-30-2018, 03:01 PM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Should come down to "Religious groups". Religious protection and exemptions.
When the state is required to treat people equally, why should they fund organizations that defy that rule?


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
States help fund various religious orgs benevolent community assistance programs. helping orphaned children is just one.
And they will continue to do so.
As long as those organizations treat people equally.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
the financial aid doesn't mean all policies and practices of all assistance groups funded are "state sanctioned" but that they are allowed the freedom of honoring religious distinctives in their work.
And they are continued to do so as long as they don't violate some basic tenets.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
I know that's a concepts that sets some people's hair on fire who simply want everyone to bow to their "modern" view of the world.

No. You simply just do not get government funding for it.
You don't have to "bow" to anything, as long as you're willing to discriminate on your own dime

Maybe a better question for you is why should gays pay taxes that go to fund organizations that discriminate against them?


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
But if they were truly tolerant and had more concern for the majority of orphans than they do for their own desires here, then they'd back off the Religious orgs larger attempts to help.
What I find hilarious about your approach is how one-sided it is.
You want to chastise the government for not funding a discriminating group, but you fail to question why the group in question prizes the discrimination above the orphans.
Why do some Christians feel obligated to force some orphans to remain orphans rather than allow them to be adopted by perfectly good parents?
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
When the state is required to treat people equally, why should they fund organizations that defy that rule?

And they will continue to do so.
As long as those organizations treat people equally.

And they are continued to do so as long as they don't violate some basic tenets.


No. You simply just do not get government funding for it.
You don't have to "bow" to anything, as long as you're willing to discriminate on your own dime
de'javu ...we've done this before... who's on 1st?.. 3rd base.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Maybe a better question for you is why should gays pay taxes that go to fund organizations that discriminate against them?
If they wanted to be exempt from some percentage of taxes, Or have that portion diverted, I'd be fine with it.
even though i don't consider it "discrimination". and again they would be harming orphans becasue they can't have their way. But OK fine.
As long as I, as a Christian, can opt out tax wise of everything I find offensive that the state funds as well.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
What I find hilarious about your approach is how one-sided it is.
You want to chastise the government for not funding a discriminating group, but you fail to question why the group in question prizes the discrimination above the orphans.
Why do some Christians feel obligated to force some orphans to remain orphans rather than allow them to be adopted by perfectly good parents?
Because Biblically speaking homosexuals are not "perfectly good parents".
Just as bible condemns and discourages alcoholism and a Chrisitian org would not knowingly adopt children out to known alcoholics ...who are otherwise good people... they can not in good conscience adopt to practicing homosexuals.
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Last edited by mr wonder; 06-30-2018 at 06:34 PM..
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Old 06-30-2018, 07:10 PM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

Anyone who is a decent acting person with means who wants to adopt a child is a God send. Or godsend as your preference may be.
No rational mind can uphold keeping children in institutions and iffy foster programs just because of the nature of a couple's private consenting marital sex.
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Old 06-30-2018, 09:57 PM
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Post Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
de'javu ...we've done this before... who's on 1st?.. 3rd base.
And you still aren't answering the questions...


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
If they wanted to be exempt from some percentage of taxes, Or have that portion diverted, I'd be fine with it.
even though i don't consider it "discrimination". and again they would be harming orphans becasue they can't have their way. But OK fine.
As long as I, as a Christian, can opt out tax wise of everything I find offensive that the state funds as well.
Don't consider it "discrimination" is like saying the grass is blue or the sky is green.
It IS discrimination. It's just discrimination you approve of, which doesn't stop it from being discrimination on an area that is protected by the 14th amendment.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Because Biblically speaking homosexuals are not "perfectly good parents".
The bible says a lot of crap that modern science has debunked.
It endorsed slavery.
It endorsed misogyny.
It endorsed genocide.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Just as bible condemns and discourages alcoholism and a Chrisitian org would not knowingly adopt children out to known alcoholics ...who are otherwise good people... they can not in good conscience adopt to practicing homosexuals.
Except we can document the harms from alcoholism.
The state acknowledges that and recognizes the harm to children from alcoholism.
https://www.dshs.wa.gov/book/export/html/3569
The same is not true of homosexuality.


I personally feel that it should be more up to the child in such situations.
If the orphan doesn't want to be adopted by a gay parent, then they shouldn't be.
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having a gay parent should keep that child from being adopted by a gay parent?
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Old 06-30-2018, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Don't consider it "discrimination" is like saying the grass is blue or the sky is green.
It IS discrimination. It's just discrimination you approve of, which doesn't stop it from being discrimination on an area that is protected by the 14th amendment.
the same way that i wouldn't consider a Chinese speaking older child preferable or only being adopted to parents where at least one is a Chinese speaker.
it's "discrimination" in the raw sense, but not in an illegal or immoral sense.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The bible says a lot of crap that modern science has debunked.
Not really.
Most simply don't take time to review all the facts. "modern science" doesn't really have as much to say about as many things as assumed.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It endorsed slavery.
allowed it. And also condemned it.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It endorsed misogyny.
Depends on your definition, culturally what the Bible promotes is treating ALL people well men and woman, and husbands loving their wives.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
It endorsed genocide.
During a brief 40 year period, after the Exodus. n conquering the land of Israel.
Yes. And only during that time. no other
And it's described as a punishment on the people of that land.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Except we can document the harms from alcoholism.
The state acknowledges that and recognizes the harm to children from alcoholism.
https://www.dshs.wa.gov/book/export/html/3569
The same is not true of homosexuality.
there is documentation of harm to adopted and foster children of homosexuals. none you'd accept i suspect. And there's much documentation on the higher rates of medical issues with homosexuals. sinful sexual habits have physical consequences in the same sense that sinful drinking habits do.


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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I personally feel that it should be more up to the child in such situations.
If the orphan doesn't want to be adopted by a gay parent, then they shouldn't be.
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having a gay parent should keep that child from being adopted by a gay parent?
you keep missing the point. It's not simply a "personal religious choice" in our view. it's the FACTS. It's Reality. homosexual marriage is wrong.
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having a alcoholic parent should keep that child from being adopted by a alcoholic parent?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having incestuous parents should keep that child from being adopted by incestuous parents?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having zoophilia parents should keep that child from being adopted by zoophilia parents?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having necrophiliac parents should keep that child from being adopted by necrophiliac parents?
etc etc...
Biblical speaking homosexual is just as clearly wrong.
and the Bible is true. And as Christians it's not to be ignored.
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Old 07-01-2018, 10:43 AM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Anyone who is a decent acting person with means who wants to adopt a child is a God send. Or godsend as your preference may be.
No rational mind can uphold keeping children in institutions and iffy foster programs just because of the nature of a couple's private consenting marital sex.
If it's private, how would an adoption agency know?
Just my humble opinion, but maybe the LGBTQ(alphabet soup) folks might want to think about NOT shoving their private lives into other peoples faces. Maybe they might want to think about NOT making their sexuality the forefront of who they are.
Ya know, keeping it private.
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Old 07-01-2018, 11:00 AM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Anyone who is a decent acting person with means who wants to adopt a child is a God send. Or godsend as your preference may be.
No rational mind can uphold keeping children in institutions and iffy foster programs just because of the nature of a couple's private consenting marital sex.
Oh, by the way,
I'm sure Neil Harris's adopted children are just fine.
Jennifer Hart's adopted children, not so much.
I sure am glad I never took a job that required me to make that decision.
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Old 07-01-2018, 12:34 PM
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Post Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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the same way that i wouldn't consider a Chinese speaking older child preferable or only being adopted to parents where at least one is a Chinese speaker.
it's "discrimination" in the raw sense, but not in an illegal or immoral sense.
Again, in your personal estimation.
But unfortunately for you, sexual orientation is covered under the 14th amendment. Ergo, your personal religious choices are not something you can get tax money to espouse.
The sooner you realize that the better.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Not really.
No. Really.
And when confronted, Christians typically either take the tactic of modifying their religious beliefs or shoving their heads in the sand.
Age of the earth and evolution being two prime examples.
There are plenty more...


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
allowed it. And also condemned it.
No. ENDORSED it.
NEVER condemned it.
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.” (Peter 2:18: )
At best it told Israelites (nobody else) that they could get out of their special type of slavery but the bible compartmentalized the indentured servant slavery for Israelites as different than that of how they enslaved other races.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Depends on your definition, culturally what the Bible promotes is treating ALL people well men and woman, and husbands loving their wives.
Do you support the bible's treatment of women as property?
Does your definition say that's the proper one?
Does your definition say it's righteous and moral for a rapist to pay a father some money after having raped the father's daughter?


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
During a brief 40 year period, after the Exodus. n conquering the land of Israel.
Yes. And only during that time. no other
And it's described as a punishment on the people of that land.
Except that's a lie too! It continued to happen after they were done with Exodus.
And he brought forth the people that were therein, and put them under saws, and under harrows of iron, and under the axes of iron, and made them pass through the brickkiln: and thus did he unto all the cities of the children of Ammon. So David and all the people returned unto Jerusalem.” (II Samuel 12:31)

“And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes…” (I Chronicles 20:3)

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
there is documentation of harm to adopted and foster children of homosexuals. none you'd accept i suspect.
Show it.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
And there's much documentation on the higher rates of medical issues with homosexuals. sinful sexual habits have physical consequences in the same sense that sinful drinking habits do.
And if an adoption agency wanted to review the health / life expectancy of specific parents, I would be fine with that. I wouldn't want a kid adopted by gay parents who would be out whoring at all hours.
Categorically rejecting the entire group based on the problems of some is a stereotyping tool utilized by prejudice.


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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
you keep missing the point. It's not simply a "personal religious choice" in our view. it's the FACTS. It's Reality. homosexual marriage is wrong.
It's funny how you say that yet you fail to appreciate you conclude with your own personal religious choice conclusion.
It's not based on facts. At best, condemnation of the entire group based on some problems which are brought about by prejudice itself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having a alcoholic parent should keep that child from being adopted by a alcoholic parent?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having incestuous parents should keep that child from being adopted by incestuous parents?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having zoophilia parents should keep that child from being adopted by zoophilia parents?
Do you feel that personal religious choices should keep a child who would be fine with having necrophiliac parents should keep that child from being adopted by necrophiliac parents?
No.
We do not use personal religious choices to reject those groups.
We have facts which demonstrate that.
Such rejection should be based on facts. NOT RELIGION.

It's like talking about a psychic telling a person he should make retirement investments.
Claims of "psychic" shouldn't be the reasoning involved for that. LOGIC and PLANNING should be the reasoning.

Suppose somebody's religion states that blacks are unfit (KKKristianity).
If they got enough votes, should their religious choices be enforced in law?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Biblical speaking homosexual is just as clearly wrong.
and the Bible is true. And as Christians it's not to be ignored.
And you are free to not ignore it in your personal life.
What I am talking about is:
a) TAX-PAYER MONEY subsidizing your religious choices.
b) Your personal choices being used to limit the choices of an orphan who would be fine with gay parents.

But of course, you've dropped those two items in your reply...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat
If it's private, how would an adoption agency know?
Just my humble opinion, but maybe the LGBTQ(alphabet soup) folks might want to think about NOT shoving their private lives into other peoples faces.

Come on Bat.
Adoption agencies ask these questions. They don't just blindly toss out kids without knowing information on the home they are adopting out to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat
Maybe they might want to think about NOT making their sexuality the forefront of who they are.
Ya know, keeping it private.
I find such comments so myopic and hypocritical.
In my office, I know the marital status and sexual orientation of most of the people I talk to during the week. Most of them straight.
I never asked. THEY were the ones who told me.
So the day that straights keep their sexual orientation "private" (as in a secret) is a day I'll think about doing the same...
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Last edited by foundit66; 07-01-2018 at 01:44 PM..
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:01 PM
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Default Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

Come on Bat.
Adoption agencies ask these questions. They don't just blindly toss out kids without knowing information on the home they are adopting out to.
You do realize that they only started asking that question when the LGBTQXYZ started making a point of it.
It's kinda that old saying, "Be careful what you ask for".



I find such comments so myopic and hypocritical.
In my office, I know the marital status and sexual orientation of most of the people I talk to during the week. Most of them straight.
I never asked. THEY were the ones who told me.
So the day that straights keep their sexual orientation "private" (as in a secret) is a day I'll think about doing the same... [/QUOTE]
Interesting office that you work in. I've never told a co-worker about my sexual orientation.
Never.
Not for 30+ years.
I'm guessing that none "told" you what their sexual status was. You're a smart person, I'm guessing that you surmised it, figured it out, deduced it. Funny, I've never had a co-worker announce that they were heterosexual, but I have heard a few announce that they were homosexual.
See the difference?
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Old 07-01-2018, 01:42 PM
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Post Re: Gay adoption fight looms after Supreme Court's cake ruling

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Originally Posted by Bat View Post
You do realize that they only started asking that question when the LGBTQXYZ started making a point of it.
It's kinda that old saying, "Be careful what you ask for".
ROFLMAO!
No. That's not what happened at all.
But of course, it's a convenient claim to make up.

History of Same Sex Adoption


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
Interesting office that you work in. I've never told a co-worker about my sexual orientation.
Never.
Not for 30+ years.
While you may keep your personal life a secret, address what I actually said.

First off, how big is your office.
Secondly, do you know of people who are married in your office?
Do you know of people who have kids in your office?
These are the things that normal people discuss as part of normal office discussions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bat View Post
I'm guessing that none "told" you what their sexual status was. You're a smart person, I'm guessing that you surmised it, figured it out, deduced it.

So the fact that I know which people are married to the opposite gender and have kids just makes me smart then?


Would you chastise Jennifer who has stated she's married to Mark and has two kids for not being more private?
Would you have the same treatment when I talk about the male name of my partner?
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Last edited by foundit66; 07-01-2018 at 03:46 PM..
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