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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by lurch907 Looks like a warrant may not be necessary depending on where the property in question is. ...

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Old 02-26-2018, 04:56 PM
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Post Re: Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
Looks like a warrant may not be necessary depending on where the property in question is.
If his land is within 25 miles of the border, his trespassing claim doesn't hold water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
So the law says the constitution DOES NOT APPLY within 25 miles of the US boarder.
really. and you're Ok with that?
Somehow that law seems, well, flatly UNconstitutional and thus an ILLEGAL "law".
this is the main problem with all of the "laws", "codes", "Executive orders" "administrative memos", "court orders", secret actions and etc, that are made to supposedly "keep us safe" from Fill-in-the-blank boogieman.
I agree with mr wonder.
Quite frankly, this whole approach reeks of something akin to Eminent domain. A concept some liberals embrace but I personally abhor.
Except in this case, they simply decide to completely ignore the property rights and provide no compensation.


Furthermore, looking at the letter of the law, it states:
... within a distance of twenty-five miles from any such external boundary to have access to private lands, but not dwellings, for the purpose of patrolling the border to prevent the illegal entry of aliens into the United States
Note it says absolutely nothing about the capability to leave government property on private land and have it required to continue to be considered as government property...

The man involved in this case seems to have tolerated (at least without lawsuit) the intrusion but is instigating the lawsuit upon the government trying to leave items upon the land.
The lawsuit itself can be simply a means to document the situation, which is a shrewd move. Without that, as the article entails, it would be expected that the government officials would abuse their power in different ways ...
As Palacios alleges in the civil complaint, his interactions with CBP began in April 2010 when his two sons were stopped at a checkpoint along I-35. When one son, Ricardo Palacios Jr., refused to answer questions, he was taken to a secondary inspection where he was assaulted by a CBP officer. Eventually, after being detained for 90 minutes, he was driven home to the ranch just a few miles away.

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... that are made to supposedly "keep us safe" from Fill-in-the-blank boogieman.
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:35 PM
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Default Re: Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues

Where Mr. Palacios is definitely in the wrong, and is lucky he didn't get arrest, was when he refused to give the camera back.
If your neighbor parks his car in your yard you can tell him to move it, call the police, or even have it towed away. What you can't do is keep his car.
Whether the camera was legally placed or not, he broke the law when he didn't give it back.

As for the legality of the camera itself, that's shaky ground. I guess it would depend on how a judge interprets "patrolling". Can you leave a camera? Use a drone with a camera? What about personnel on patrol, can they drive? Walk? Ride an ATV? Definitely some clarification needed here.
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Old 02-26-2018, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues

Quote:
Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
So the law says the constitution DOES NOT APPLY within 25 miles of the US boarder.
really. and you're Ok with that?

Somehow that law seems, well, flatly UNconstitutional and thus an ILLEGAL "law".

this is the main problem with all of the "laws", "codes", "Executive orders" "administrative memos", "court orders", secret actions and etc, that are made to supposedly "keep us safe" from Fill-in-the-blank boogieman.
Easy there, I didn't say I'm OK with it, I just said his claim that they were trespassing doesn't hold water. It's one of the reasons he is suing them, but it appears they were acting within the law.
I have no idea if the constitutionality of the law has been challenged, but I know the courts tend to give more than a little leeway on thing like this that concern national security.
Here's the thing, you seem ready to give the various parts of gov't the authority to usurp the Constitution as long as multiple branches agree to it Lurch.

At what point do we as a people Judge and say?
NO, the Constitution is clear, there is no excuse that allows you, as paid gov't officials, reps or courts to disregard it.
WE JUDGE that you've clearly crossed the line. Step BACK to the Constitutional limits and do your jobs from there. Sorry if it makes your jobs more "difficult" but this is AMERICA. the Constitution is the LAW.


Why should we just accept or act as if it OK that the courts will grant "LEEWAY" to evermore unconstitutional activity?
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues

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Originally Posted by mr wonder View Post
Here's the thing, you seem ready to give the various parts of gov't the authority to usurp the Constitution as long as multiple branches agree to it Lurch.

At what point do we as a people Judge and say?
NO, the Constitution is clear, there is no excuse that allows you, as paid gov't officials, reps or courts to disregard it.
WE JUDGE that you've clearly crossed the line. Step BACK to the Constitutional limits and do your jobs from there. Sorry if it makes your jobs more "difficult" but this is AMERICA. the Constitution is the LAW.


Why should we just accept or act as if it OK that the courts will grant "LEEWAY" to evermore unconstitutional activity?
At the voting booth. If you don't like the laws your congress critters are passing, vote them out of office. As to what else the people can do, aside from armed revolt not much.
While I think the 25 miles is excessive, I do think there has to be a corridor along the land borders that Border Enforcement can access without a warrant, as a matter of national security. With so much of the border being private property I see no other way to effectively patrol it. 5 miles seems more reasonable to me.
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Old 02-26-2018, 06:34 PM
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Default Re: Man removes feds’ spy cam they demand it back he refuses & sues

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Originally Posted by lurch907 View Post
At the voting booth. If you don't like the laws your congress critters are passing, vote them out of office. As to what else the people can do, aside from armed revolt not much.
While I think the 25 miles is excessive, I do think there has to be a corridor along the land borders that Border Enforcement can access without a warrant, as a matter of national security. With so much of the border being private property I see no other way to effectively patrol it. 5 miles seems more reasonable to me.
Well , Ok Yes, the voting booth is one way.
but 1st it seems we need to get enough VOTERS like yourself to stop making excuses for the gov't and assuming the leeway is "legal". not 5 miles and certainly not 25 miles. And give some public support FOR the land owner rather than trying to find ways that HE is in the wrong.

So even before the voting booth a bit of noise,
the Constitution is very clear here to most with a high school diploma.
ALL LEO's need the owner's permission to get onto private property unless there's probably cause.

When slavery was legal people "broke" the law to help run away slaves.
When women couldn't vote many went to polls and did it anyway or tried.
There are several other means of protest.
I suspect if they made a law saying 'turn in your guns', you might not comply (a form of protest) and find several other ways AS WELL AS voting to let the gov't know that you will not have your rights taken away. Even if the law makers, president and LEOs and the courts uphold it... for the sake of "reasonable" "national security".

But by way of voting , you and me and everyone here have to agree that the Constitution is really where we want our politicians to be on this issue. And others.
Or if we'll just let it slide and let the courts decide ...as you said... giving LEO's "more than a little leeway on things like this".

that's what's been most frustrating to me over the last 15 years, people that I'd HOPE (both on the left and right) would vote for more constitution minded candidates DON'T. and make excuses or side with nearly every NEW unconstitutional gov't act... as if it "just the way it is" .. or the OTHER party's fault.
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