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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss The Kevin Spacey incident at the Political Forums; It seems the gay community has reacted a couple of ways to the Kevin Spacey event of admitting he is ...

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Old 11-01-2017, 11:16 PM
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Default The Kevin Spacey incident

It seems the gay community has reacted a couple of ways to the Kevin Spacey event of admitting he is gay upon sexual abuse allegations.

On one hand they are angry at what they perceive is an association of sexual abuse with homosexuality.

Kevin Spacey chose to engage an old and toxic myth (opinion) - CNN

On the other hand, some of them believe they have overreacted and argue that doing so makes it worse.

How calling Kevin Spacey a pedophile hurts the gay community.

It's funny in that no one has even mentioned the idea for a second that the Harvy Weinstein situation could speak about straight people, or rather reacted at the fear of people getting that idea. And considering the Spacey event is happening on the heels of the bigger scandal of the straight Weinstein, it strikes me as a silly that gays would be worried about this in this case. Ironically, the thought probably wouldn't have crossed a lot of peoples' minds if gay pride proponents hadn't brought up their concern over it. It's sort of like how preemptively arguing against something is the very thing that brings about the thought to begin with. A far greater concern for the gay community on this matter than one single gay actor who engaged in this terrible behavior is the plethora of gay priests who did it in the RCC. That, arguably, has caused them far more damage.

I do think it's all a shame, because Spacey is such a good actor. One of the best ever IMO--I was a huge HoCs fan. But there's no excusing this.
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:30 PM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

He picked a helluva time to come out of the closet.
Bad move, just sayin'
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Old 11-01-2017, 11:48 PM
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Post Re: The Kevin Spacey incident


People who want to stereotype gays as pedophiles will do so, regardless of the facts. I've already documented elsewhere that gays are no more likely to be pedophiles.

The fact that Harvey Weinstein won't be portrayed as making heterosexuals look bad while some (like the OP) will fixate on gays with Kevin Spacey only demonstrates the prejudice of some against gays.

Quite frankly, the "pedophile" label is inaccurate as pedophilia refers to pre-pubescent children.
Spacey's violation (and it was vile) would be in the category of statutory rape. NOT "pedophilia".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe
Ironically, the thought probably wouldn't have crossed a lot of peoples' minds if gay pride proponents hadn't brought up their concern over it.
The irony here is that Joe Shoe is the one repeating that message, for exactly that purpose...
He chose that discussion, but amusingly he's trying to blame it on the gays instead of recognizing the homophobes who made it part and parcel of their coordinated attacks on gay equality over the decades...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lollie
He picked a helluva time to come out of the closet.
Bad move, just sayin'
There are more people coming out of the woodworks regarding Spacey.
Two More Men Come Forward to Accuse Kevin Spacey of Sexual Misconduct


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Old 11-01-2017, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

People who want to stereotype gays as pedophiles will do so, regardless of the facts.
Or they'll discount it...

From the Slate link in the OP...

Quote:
Gay pundits’ overblown protests of disgust at Spacey support the very structure of pedophile sex panic—the hyperventilating reduction of queerness to child abuse—that they are trying to fend off. To be clear, under no clinical diagnostic I know of does a drunken, aggressive, and deeply stupid pass at a teenager qualify as pedophilia. Indeed, one working definition of pedophilia is “ongoing sexual attraction to prepubertal children … who are generally age 13 years or younger.” From the perspective of helping children and pedophilic men both, pedophilia is best understood as a mental and public health problem requiring treatment and supervision rather than as a crime. (As a technical matter, there is no “crime” of pedophilia, which is a structure of desire; there are crimes of child molestation, abuse, etc.)

No, based on the evidence available at this point, Kevin Spacey is not a pedophile.
Got that?...

If Spacey sexually assaulted a 13 year old, it would be pedophilia, but in this case, it was a 14 year old, so HOW DARE anyone call him a pedo!...
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Old 11-02-2017, 12:08 AM
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Post Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Or they'll discount it...
From the Slate link in the OP...
Got that?...
If Spacey sexually assaulted a 13 year old, it would be pedophilia, but in this case, it was a 14 year old, so HOW DARE anyone call him a pedo!...

First off, the author clearly states that what Spacey allegedly did was wrong. So it's kind of incomplete to simply say "discount it" regarding the situation.
Secondly, the author is accurate.
pedophilia:
sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object; specifically :a psychiatric disorder in which an adult has sexual fantasies about or engages in sexual acts with a prepubescent child

Finally, the categorization is actually irrelevant to the issue of the law. There is no "pedophilia" law. The laws will dictate what is considered "child molestation" and for many areas that can mean under 18.
Pedophiles are attracted to children and actually often have no adult sexual attraction.
Spacey (according to the evolving picture) is attracted to men. There are others coming forward who were adults at the time of the abuse.
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Old 11-02-2017, 01:35 AM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
It seems the gay community has reacted a couple of ways to the Kevin Spacey event of admitting he is gay upon sexual abuse allegations.

On one hand they are angry at what they perceive is an association of sexual abuse with homosexuality.

Kevin Spacey chose to engage an old and toxic myth (opinion) - CNN

On the other hand, some of them believe they have overreacted and argue that doing so makes it worse.

How calling Kevin Spacey a pedophile hurts the gay community.

It's funny in that no one has even mentioned the idea for a second that the Harvy Weinstein situation could speak about straight people, or rather reacted at the fear of people getting that idea. And considering the Spacey event is happening on the heels of the bigger scandal of the straight Weinstein, it strikes me as a silly that gays would be worried about this in this case. Ironically, the thought probably wouldn't have crossed a lot of peoples' minds if gay pride proponents hadn't brought up their concern over it. It's sort of like how preemptively arguing against something is the very thing that brings about the thought to begin with. A far greater concern for the gay community on this matter than one single gay actor who engaged in this terrible behavior is the plethora of gay priests who did it in the RCC. That, arguably, has caused them far more damage.

I do think it's all a shame, because Spacey is such a good actor. One of the best ever IMO--I was a huge HoCs fan. But there's no excusing this.
it appears he only came out to detract from the scandal
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Old 11-02-2017, 09:25 AM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
it appears he only came out to detract from the scandal
Exactly, it is the same strategy Kathy Griffin used, I am a strong woman oppressed, declare yourself a member of an identity group then denounce the scandal as an attack on the group. Kudos to those who reject this cheap PR ploy.

The rush to judgement based on 30 year old allegations is phenomenal. Roman Polanski after a conviction for sexual conduct with a minor hasn't been rejected by the Hollywood elite like Spacey has. Of course Polanski like Weinstein has the ability to influence who gets hired and who gets rejected by filmmakers unlike Spacey.
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:48 AM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Or they'll discount it...

From the Slate link in the OP...

Got that?...

If Spacey sexually assaulted a 13 year old, it would be pedophilia, but in this case, it was a 14 year old, so HOW DARE anyone call him a pedo!...
Pedophilia deals with pre-pubescent and post-pubescent children. There will always be people who will try to narrow down evils. It's like an adult man having sex with a girl who is 17 years, 11 months, and 29 days old versus an 18 year old. Under the law, any kid under 18 is considered juvenile.
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Old 11-02-2017, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The irony here is that Joe Shoe is the one repeating that message, for exactly that purpose...
He chose that discussion, but amusingly he's trying to blame it on the gays instead of recognizing the homophobes who made it part and parcel of their coordinated attacks on gay equality over the decades...
And you were JUST whining about ad hominem in another thread ....
I didn't 'blame the gays', so don't lie. The point is that these days, its a solution looking for a problem. An attempt to rebut an argument no one's making, that I've heard.
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Old 11-02-2017, 02:20 PM
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Post Re: The Kevin Spacey incident

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
And you were JUST whining about ad hominem in another thread ....
And again, you take things out of context.
My complaint regards people (e.g. you) posting nothing but ad hominem while providing no topical benefit.
That's not what I did here.

And why do you keep dodging this question?
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
So let's try this then.
Can you give me a simple statement regarding your feeling on "ad hominem" THAT WOULD APPLY TO YOU WHEN YOU DO IT AS WELL...


I've already given you mine. Repeatedly.
I have no problem with side banter. When somebody completely drops topical discussion and instead fixates on ad hominem, that's a problem.

So you give me your standard that you understands applies to you as well.
Or is this yet another example where you whine about ad hominem...
... but you'll be doing it several posts later anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
I didn't 'blame the gays', so don't lie.
Who else did you blame in your preceding post?
Did you acknowledge that homophobes are the instigator of these claims and that if they weren't throwing out lies then gays wouldn't have to defend themselves?

Or did your post solely blame gays?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
The point is that these days, its a solution looking for a problem. An attempt to rebut an argument no one's making, that I've heard.
I am perpetually amused at how it's obvious you frequent anti-gay web-sites to dig up any negative publicity against gays ...
... but then you absolutely refuse to acknowledge what they are doing.

In this case, one of the more recent examples of this would be complaints regarding the BSA allowing gays into the scouts. People complained that this would result in more child molestation and that gays should be kept out for fears of child molestation.

For examples of a homophobes trying to make the gay / pedophile link on the Spacey situation, here's one.
https://www.advocate.com/crime/2017/...re-gay-culture
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