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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss LGBT law backlash hurting job search at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 I love how the right-wing tries to pretend they're of the mind-set that employers should be ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I love how the right-wing tries to pretend they're of the mind-set that employers should be able to hire / fire as they please...

... until it actually affects one of their own. THEN it's just a "punishment".
It's not a mind set. In many ( 26 I believe) states it is still the law. And more are joining as At Will states.

It is here in Missouri putting small business owners at risk of suffering a Federal DOJ with a cause.

A business, particularly a proprietary one, IS a person's PROPERTY. Not the property of the State.

However,

Universities are public and subject to the whims of current prejudice. So, if you have a prejudice, and it conflicts with the prejudice de'Jour' then don't expect fair treatment from them when getting educated or hired.

You might look up the Constitution again and see where it says the Federal Government has the right, or obligation, to modify the social norms and behavior of citizens in any state.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-20-2017, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe
Again, you put up a straw man. No one here has said anything about "should be able" or 'should not be able'. This isn't a discussion of employer rights.
What you don't know would fill volumes.
Peruse any of the "gay employment discrimination" threads talking about laws preventing it. They're filled with people making those claims.

And as far as "no one here...", that's exactly the point of my observation on hypocrisy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
It's not a mind set. In many ( 26 I believe) states it is still the law. And more are joining as At Will states.

The 1964 Civil Rights Act applies to all 50 states.
But I guess since that protects Christians from discrimination, it's often ignored as such by the right...


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
However,
Universities are public and subject to the whims of current prejudice. So, if you have a prejudice, and it conflicts with the prejudice de'Jour' then don't expect fair treatment from them when getting educated or hired.

If you have a prejudice and it violates University policy is what you should have said.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
You might look up the Constitution again and see where it says the Federal Government has the right, or obligation, to modify the social norms and behavior of citizens in any state.
And yet, that's not what happened at all...

You are free to consider "norms" per your definition.
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Last edited by foundit66; 03-22-2017 at 02:27 PM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 11:58 AM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Not getting a job because you hold views that are unpopular has been punishment for like forever winston where've you been.
that's why there are laws against discriminatory practices.
and you see those disclaimers in job postings about hiring not based on color religion creed or sexual etc...

Is your race a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your sex a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your color a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your national origin a "view that is unpopular"?

The answer to all the above is no.
The only one that has any relation with "opinion" is religion.
And Employment Civil Rights protection has never been used to protect "unpopular" opinions. And when religion has been attempted as a justification for the unpopular opinion (e.g. when religion has been attempted to justify racism), the attempt was rejected as religion is not an excuse to violate the law.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Joe For some reason I suspect if some former LGXYZ official was being rejected from getting jobs because they promoted some controversial sexuailty laws while in office that there'd be howls of "Discrimination".
I really hate hypothetical arguments where you dream up a scenario in your own head and use it to justify outrage.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
But somehow that doesn't apply to the other side of this issue.
YOU JUST MADE UP a scenario in your head and imagined other people's responses, criticizing them for what YOU IMAGINED.

For comparison.
Suppose John and Jill were married.
Jill went to sleep and dreamed that John cheated on her.
Jill woke up mad and blamed John for her dream.

Most rational people would recognize that as b.s.
But that's exactly what you just did...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Sadly to many folk it's 'SO CLEAR' how the law only protects those that PROMOTE homosexuality and gender confusion and not those ... NEVER those... that promote biological gender standards and traditional marriage.
The list of protected items is legislated. Voted into being.
Your prejudice is not on that list.
Gays fought to have sexual orientation added to that list, in the few places where it has been added.

You are more than free to fight for your own addition to that legislation.
Until you do, you whining about what's not there is just abjectly stupid.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
To maintain the views of biological gender standards and traditional marriage in public law or private biz (or public discourse) is by DEFAULT 'discriminatory' and 'hatful' in their minds. And their minds/beliefs/assertions are supposedly the only ones that count on this issue.
And you're back to imagining other people's positions.
From my position, what you just said is absolute b.s.
I don't expect you to have the honesty to admit that because you prefer your imagination to reality.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
But it seems to me there's no logical REASON why everyone else should suddenly flip to their view on this issue. Biology surely hasn't changed in the past 25 years. We only have people demanding that whatever they believe... despite science, despite biology... should be legally PROMOTED in all venues or else.
with only CERTAIN aspect of the Churches and of course all Muslims being exempt
Muslims are not exempt.
Muslims are a minority, outnumbered 75 to 1 in this country (Christian to Muslim ratio)

And thus when one or two or a handful of Christians do something, it's a boring canard for right-wingers to trot out the "but what about the muslims" defense...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
theirs NO PLACE to even have a discussion.
You are having the discussion right here.

Okay. I'm done with this idiocy.
You're going to continue to paint yourself as a victim in your own imagination regardless of what is said.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 02:57 PM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

Is your race a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your sex a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your color a "view that is unpopular"?
Is your national origin a "view that is unpopular"?

The answer to all the above is no.
um the answer is actually yes Fi66
it's people VEIWS about race, sex, color, national origin, and orientation that are the root of the problem.

So most of what you follow with ...doesn't really apply.


Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
For comparison.
Suppose John and Jill were married.
Jill went to sleep and dreamed that John cheated on her.
Jill woke up mad and blamed John for her dream.

Most rational people would recognize that as b.s.
But that's exactly what you just did...
ha, sheesh,
I think most rational people recognize that even Hypothetically speaking it is bad IF John cheats or IF Jill cheats.

the point is it's wrong for both or OK for both. most normal people can understand that IF John did cheat she'd have a right to be angry.

a better version is,
Jill actually cheated on John but she doesn't think anythings wrong with it.
And FI66 pretends that no one should even imagine the idea that John could cheat on Jill and that Jill would think THAT was wrong.
why FI66? 'Because that hasn't REALLY happened.'
seriously?

most people wouldn't buy that line from FI66.
Unless they where good friends with Jill and/or didn't really like John.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The list of protected items is legislated. Voted into being.
But somehow when the Carolina laws were Voted into being you and many others are having a problem with it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Your prejudice is not on that list.
Do i get to characterize your view "prejudice" because i don't like it.
my legal view of bathrooms is based on clear scientific biological gender.... rather than wishful, illusory thinking.
I'm not sure what's "prejudice" about that. Prejudice toward universal objective REALITY, rather than personal fantasies maybe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

You are more than free to fight for your own addition to that legislation.
Until you do, you whining about what's not there is just abjectly stupid.
that's exactly what the former gov did and now people (like yourself?) are not just whining but apparently hindering the man's employment as punishment for doing what you rightly say people are legally and morally FREE to fight for.
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Last edited by mr. wonder; 03-21-2017 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 03-21-2017, 03:34 PM
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Post Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
ha, sheesh,
I think most rational people recognize that even Hypothetically speaking it is bad IF John cheats or IF Jill cheats.
But John did not cheat.
Jill dreamed that John cheated and thus she got mad because of something John never actually did.

Likewise, you were complaining about a reaction you imagined but never actually occurred....


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
And FI66 pretends that no one should even imagine the idea that John could cheat on Jill and that Jill would think THAT was wrong.
why FI66? 'Because that hasn't REALLY happened.'
seriously?
Is that what I said?


My point was you are criticizing people for what happened in your imagination.
Imagining people doing something is one thing.
Actually thinking ill of somebody for things they never actually did but you JUST IMAGINED them doing? That's dumb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
But somehow when the Carolina laws were Voted into being you and many others are having a problem with it.
Pay attention to both what people ARE saying and what people are NOT saying.
Did I say you couldn't have a problem with what's voted in?



Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
Do i get to characterize your view "prejudice" because i don't like it.
I've explained why I feel your opinions are prejudiced in the past.
We can revisit that if you like.
But as memory serves, you dropped the discussion and didn't even try to contest the assessment. Thus, unless you're actually interested in discussing it, I see no point in further discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
that's exactly what the former gov did and now people (like yourself?) are not just whining but apparently hindering the man's employment as punishment for doing what you rightly say people are legally and morally FREE to fight for.
And yet again, more goal-post moving.

You get that this is how the world actually works, right?
People say and do things they feel morally about all the time, and it affects them in the real world. That happens on BOTH the right-wing and the left-wing sides.

You get that, right?
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Last edited by foundit66; 03-21-2017 at 05:32 PM..
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 08:18 PM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 straw man
YOU JUST MADE UP a scenario in your head and imagined other people's responses, criticizing them for what YOU IMAGINED.
For comparison.
Suppose John and Jill were married.
Jill went to sleep and dreamed that John cheated on her.
Jill woke up mad and blamed John for her dream.

Most rational people would recognize that as b.s.
But that's exactly what you just did...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder w edits in brackets
ha, sheesh,
I think most rational people recognize that even Hypothetically speaking it is bad IF John cheats or IF Jill cheats.

the point is it's wrong for both or OK for both. Most normal people can understand that IF John did cheat she'd have a right to be angry.

[so] a better version is,
Jill actually cheated on John but she doesn't think anythings wrong with it.
[but] FI66 pretends that no one should even imagine the idea that John could cheat on Jill and that Jill would think THAT was wrong.
why FI66?
'Because that hasn't REALLY happened.' [you just IMAGINED shed be upset]
Seriously[FI66]?

most people wouldn't buy that line from FI66.
Unless they where good friends with Jill and/or didn't really like John.
Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
But John did not cheat.
Jill dreamed that John cheated and thus she got mad because of something John never actually did.

Likewise, you were complaining about a reaction you imagined but never actually occurred....
Is that what I said?

My point was you are criticizing people for what happened in your imagination.
Imagining people doing something is one thing.
Actually thinking ill of somebody for things they never actually did but you JUST IMAGINED them doing? That's dumb.




Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66
And yet again, more goal-post moving.

You get that this is how the world actually works, right?
People say and do things they feel morally about all the time, and it affects them in the real world. That happens on BOTH the right-wing and the left-wing sides.

You get that, right?
so your saying that those that advocate for various moral causes IN Political positions should expect to be denied jobs at colleges and elsewhere once they leave office because of their views.
So maybe like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton since they advocate FOR Abortion could be denied jobs at colleges. and that's just how it goes? Or Bernie Sanders since he's an outright socialist and promotes that, then he should expect to be denied jobs at colleges. People on left like that you mean?
Or is it only those on the right that when they promote their views that are being denied here?

FI66 I have no problem with you JUST IMAGINING left wing politicians that are denied jobs because of moral or controversial political views and positions taking while in office. But i would like to see an example or 2 in this case.
Since you say it "HAPPENS" to both.

Just so i get it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2017, 09:03 PM
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Post Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
I agree.
You say something.
I respond to that exact thing you said.
And then you say something back that moves the goal-posts.

Let's try this...
I said: "YOU JUST MADE UP a scenario in your head and imagined other people's responses, criticizing them for what YOU IMAGINED."

Do you agree that's what you did?
I suspect not so let me quote it...
Joe For some reason I suspect if some former LGXYZ official was being rejected from getting jobs because they promoted some controversial sexuailty laws while in office that there'd be howls of "Discrimination".
But somehow that doesn't apply to the other side of this issue.
The "I suspect if" is a clear demonstration that you are making up a hypothetical scenario that you are imagining left-wing reaction to.
But of course, you refuse to admit that dontcha...
But if you refuse to admit that it only exists in your head, then give a link to where it happened...

Or, pull your usual routine of moving the goalposts...


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
so your saying that those that advocate for various moral causes IN Political positions should expect to be denied jobs at colleges and elsewhere once they leave office because of their views.
So maybe like Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton since they advocate FOR Abortion could be denied jobs at colleges. and that's just how it goes? Or Bernie Sanders since he's an outright socialist and promotes that, then he should expect to be denied jobs at colleges. People on left like that you mean?
Or is it only those on the right that when they promote their views that are being denied here?
What's funny is in a few sentences you explicitly state the following:
mr. wonder: "Since you say it "HAPPENS" to both."
But above you're questioning whether I think it applies to the left...


Do you even understand when you contradict yourself so openly like this?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
FI66 I have no problem with you JUST IMAGINING left wing politicians that are denied jobs because of moral or controversial political views and positions taking while in office. But i would like to see an example or 2 in this case.
Since you say it "HAPPENS" to both.
Just so i get it.
I really get tired of your lying crap.
I really do.
Did I say I "IMAGINING left wing politicians that are denied jobs because of moral or controversial political view"?


I said: "People say and do things they feel morally about all the time, and it affects them in the real world. That happens on BOTH the right-wing and the left-wing sides."
But of course, you try to misrepresent that by JUST quoting "happens", dontcha...

To give two examples of what I was actually talking about...
Gay teacher Lonnie Billard sues Charlotte Catholic High School over firing | Daily Mail Online
The insubordinate bumper sticker: A Kerry fan gets fired, and then hired, for her politics.
Hell. I'll give you a third one...
Rifle maker bounces boss who supports Obama
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Old 03-21-2017, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Exactly ... like I pointed out, the guy's being punished.
Thanks for helping make my point.
Is this person being punished?

Tomi Lahren Suspended From The Blaze

Conservative media company The Blaze suspended political commentator Tomi Lahren for at least one week, according to USA Today. The news was first reported by conservative news outlet The Daily Caller on Monday.

Lahren, 24, reportedly wasn’t on good terms with her co-workers after she claimed last week to be "pro-choice" during an appearance on ABC’s "The View."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tomi-lahr...223212133.html

Or is that her views just do not fit in with the Blaze?
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Damn shame it couldn't have been a father / son event. IMHO.
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:31 AM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

Did I say I "IMAGINING left wing politicians that are denied jobs because of moral or controversial political view"?


I said: "People say and do things they feel morally about all the time, and it affects them in the real world. That happens on BOTH the right-wing and the left-wing sides."
But of course, you try to misrepresent that by JUST quoting "happens", dontcha...

To give two examples of what I was actually talking about...
Gay teacher Lonnie Billard sues Charlotte Catholic High School over firing | Daily Mail Online
The insubordinate bumper sticker: A Kerry fan gets fired, and then hired, for her politics.
Hell. I'll give you a third one...
Rifle maker bounces boss who supports Obama
thank you, you've just proved my point.
"Gay teacher Lonnie Billard sues Charlotte Catholic High School over firing"
your examples show that what's being done to the gov is WRONG. it is wrong when or IF either side does it.

Your Slate article says basically what Joe and I have been saying but some like yourself have been trying to poo poo, dismiss or deny.
"....Firing a person because you don't like his or her politics runs contrary to just about everything this country stands for..."
link
Firing and NOT hiring, black balling.it's WRONG. it's punishment.
it's what happened during the macarthy era, it was wrong then and wrong now.

but maybe the slate writer is a prejudice liar who's only imagining things.
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Last edited by mr. wonder; 03-22-2017 at 08:39 AM..
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Old 03-22-2017, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: LGBT law backlash hurting job search

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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
Is this person being punished?

Tomi Lahren Suspended From The Blaze

Conservative media company The Blaze suspended political commentator Tomi Lahren for at least one week, according to USA Today. The news was first reported by conservative news outlet The Daily Caller on Monday.

Lahren, 24, reportedly wasn’t on good terms with her co-workers after she claimed last week to be "pro-choice" during an appearance on ABC’s "The View."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/tomi-lahr...223212133.html

Or is that her views just do not fit in with the Blaze?
probably BOTH in that case.
If she's on the editorial or writing staff or an on air personality, she's not a fit for the job. just like a pro-lifer wouldn't be a good fit as a planned parenthood spokesperson.
the person's views are clearly CONTRARY to the orgs mission and that job's purpose.

But If she's working as an accountant at the Blaze then it's ONLY punishment and is wrong.

But there's ZERO mission issues with the Gov being on board at a college. he's not trying to stop 'transgenders' from getting college educations. which is the real mission of the college. and just as importantly college campuses are suppose to promote the free discourse of ALL IDEAs. so his presence would ADD to the mix of views of the faculty which apparently is already leaning left so far left they can't see strait.
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Hope is the dream of the waking man.
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For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr. wonder; 03-22-2017 at 09:04 AM..
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