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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Univ. of Washington shooting at the Political Forums; There was a non-fatal shooting at the UW campus last Friday evening outside of a Hall where Milo Y. was ...

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Old 01-24-2017, 12:54 PM
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Default Univ. of Washington shooting

There was a non-fatal shooting at the UW campus last Friday evening outside of a Hall where Milo Y. was speaking. You may have heard about it but detailed information has been slow to surface. What exactly happened and who was involved? The article below gives a general timeline and some of the dynamics. 1st of all, it was inauguration day for DJT and Milo was speaking on a college campus. Speculations about the shooter and the shot person still persist but here's what we may know. The person that was shot is a 34 year old IWW ( Industrial Workers of the World ) associate named Josh Dukes who was at the event to protest Milo / Trump. From what I can gather, the IWW folks are called "Wobblies". The shooters name hasn't been disclosed as of yet, but he supposedly was there to attend the event but couldn't get in due to the the protesters who prevented many from getting inside Kane Hall. According to police, video, and testimony there was the throwing of bricks and other projectiles prior to the shooting. Trump supporters had been harassed, beaten, and roughed up. One young guy had been bloodied and hit with a blue paint balloon (or something like that). Video of the incident seems to show Mr. Dukes physically confronting an individual in a yellow hat before a bang is heard. The shooter and another person turned themselves in to the police and claimed it was self defense. They were released. The campus is a gun free zone for students, not the general public. This skirmish highlights the right of free speech and 2nd amendment rights. Do the protesters have the right to block entrance to an event and should the PD have provided safe entrance and exiting of attendees. Also, what if the shooter was attacked by a protester? Can he defend himself with either lethal force or non lethal mace or stun guns?
More info will provide clarity on some of my presumptions.



How the shooting at the UW protest of Milo Yiannopoulos unfolded | The Seattle Times
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Univ. of Washington shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
There was a non-fatal shooting at the UW campus last Friday evening outside of a Hall where Milo Y. was speaking. You may have heard about it but detailed information has been slow to surface. What exactly happened and who was involved? The article below gives a general timeline and some of the dynamics. 1st of all, it was inauguration day for DJT and Milo was speaking on a college campus. Speculations about the shooter and the shot person still persist but here's what we may know. The person that was shot is a 34 year old IWW ( Industrial Workers of the World ) associate named Josh Dukes who was at the event to protest Milo / Trump. From what I can gather, the IWW folks are called "Wobblies". The shooters name hasn't been disclosed as of yet, but he supposedly was there to attend the event but couldn't get in due to the the protesters who prevented many from getting inside Kane Hall. According to police, video, and testimony there was the throwing of bricks and other projectiles prior to the shooting. Trump supporters had been harassed, beaten, and roughed up. One young guy had been bloodied and hit with a blue paint balloon (or something like that). Video of the incident seems to show Mr. Dukes physically confronting an individual in a yellow hat before a bang is heard. The shooter and another person turned themselves in to the police and claimed it was self defense. They were released. The campus is a gun free zone for students, not the general public. This skirmish highlights the right of free speech and 2nd amendment rights. Do the protesters have the right to block entrance to an event and should the PD have provided safe entrance and exiting of attendees. Also, what if the shooter was attacked by a protester? Can he defend himself with either lethal force or non lethal mace or stun guns?
More info will provide clarity on some of my presumptions.



How the shooting at the UW protest of Milo Yiannopoulos unfolded | The Seattle Times
The protesters have the right to protest. The school has the right to set time/place/manner restrictions but generally must only set the LEAST restrictive measures (depends on if there is any state law on this one as well). Could that include blocking entrance? Potentially.

If the shooter was attacked, can he defend himself? Yes. But his defense must be congruent to the force that was used against him. He doesn't get to use lethal (or potentially lethal) force to defend himself without reasonable belief his life was in danger.

However, the gun was not allowed on campus...

https://www.washington.edu/admin/rul...8-120-024.html

Which has been held not to be an impermissible restriction on the 2nd Amendment.

More facts would be helpful.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Univ. of Washington shooting

Ooops....

It appears I erroneously directed your to the wrong section... Sorry, I am not an expert in Washington administrative law.

https://www.washington.edu/admin/rul...8-124-020.html

Quote:
Possession or use of firearms, explosives, dangerous chemicals or other dangerous weapons or instrumentalities on the university campus, except for authorized university purposes, unless prior written approval has been obtained from the university chief of police, or any other person designated by the president of the university;
But, interestingly enough, some of the other behavior going on was prohibited as well...

Quote:
Conduct which intentionally and substantially obstructs or disrupts teaching or freedom of movement or other lawful activities on the university campus
&

Quote:
Physical abuse of any person or conduct which is intended unlawfully to threaten imminent bodily harm or to endanger the health or safety of any person on the university campus
However, I don't see where any of the above equates justification of lethal (or attempted lethal) force.

Milo is repugnant as all hell, but let the bastard talk. Only those drinking the Kool-Aid or are too dumb to know better buy into what he's saying anyway...

But generally speaking, the school should be a place of education. "Alternative facts" isn't education, it's propaganda.
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Old 01-24-2017, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Univ. of Washington shooting

Quote:
Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
The protesters have the right to protest. The school has the right to set time/place/manner restrictions but generally must only set the LEAST restrictive measures (depends on if there is any state law on this one as well). Could that include blocking entrance? Potentially.

If the shooter was attacked, can he defend himself? Yes. But his defense must be congruent to the force that was used against him. He doesn't get to use lethal (or potentially lethal) force to defend himself without reasonable belief his life was in danger.

However, the gun was not allowed on campus...

https://www.washington.edu/admin/rul...8-120-024.html

Which has been held not to be an impermissible restriction on the 2nd Amendment.

More facts would be helpful.

It's possible if the campus "gun free zone" applied to the shooter, he would've been charged and held when he turned himself in. The prosecutors may even be struggling with this.
I was also wondering if the use of pepper spray to repel protesters who are spitting on attendees who are walking the gauntlet is legal/acceptable.
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Old 01-24-2017, 02:08 PM
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Default Re: Univ. of Washington shooting

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Originally Posted by zoriolus View Post
It's possible if the campus "gun free zone" applied to the shooter, he would've been charged and held when he turned himself in. The prosecutors may even be struggling with this.
I was also wondering if the use of pepper spray to repel protesters who are spitting on attendees who are walking the gauntlet is legal/acceptable.
It is possible they could charge him with violation of the "gun free zone." Based upon my reading they released him because he presented an affirmative defense to an Assault with a Deadly Weapon charge. In fact, they could still come back and charge him with Assault with a Deadly Weapon depending on the progress of their investigation. So the shooter isn't out of the woods by any means and surely faces a great deal of grilling in the future.

As to the use of pepper spray, I think that becomes somewhat difficult. I suppose one could make the argument that it is reasonable AS LONG AS it is not used indiscriminately, but I'm not sure that simple spitting would rise to the level of creating an acceptable use of pepper spray.

We are moving into a very gray area of the "reasonable person" standard that often applies.
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Old 01-25-2017, 10:45 PM
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Default Re: Univ. of Washington shooting

A few more details have trickled out although not confirmed by authorities or MSM. The shooter seems to be a 29 year old, named Marc Hokoana who is probably an alumnus of UW. His academic interests are biology and physiology. His wife was with him that evening. His heritage is Hawaiian. He was there for the Milo event but unable to get in because of the demonstrators. He claims he had been sucker punched earlier and his MAGA hat swiped. He sent Milo a message on social media wanting an autographed hat. He attends gun events and supports the NRA. Josh Dukes, the guy that was shot, is a member of the IWW which is leftist group with an interesting history. He is recovering from his wound but has made some statements through his lawyer such as having a dialogue with the shooter. There is fund set up to help him with medical bills.

My feeling is that there are going to be more of these incidents with people seriously hurt.
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