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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by RedState Generally Speaking I do not see any problems. If you win the Presidency you should have ...

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Old 01-24-2017, 06:50 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Generally Speaking I do not see any problems. If you win the Presidency you should have a mandate to push through your agenda, assuming its the agenda you ran on. And of course, The Supreme Court has the final say on the constitutionality of EO's, checks and balances! For the Win.
There are significant problems related to challenging the actions of government regardless of whether it's a Congressional action such as passage of a law or a presidential action through an executive order.

The first challenge is to establish "standing" before the court. I don't know of anyone that has standing to challenge Trump's executive order that only effects foreign countries.

That will obviously change if Congress passes a law to defund Planned Parenthood that's the largest single provider of women's reproductive health services in the United States (from what I understand).

The next challenge is to establish the compelling argument that the law or action violates the US Constitution. Unlike the criteria of the "burden of proof" being on the government now the burden of proof is on the person (plaintiff) in the case to defend our rights. When the GOP votes to defund Planned Parenthood there will be a very good case for the Supreme Court to strike it down as unconstitutional that even "conservative" justices will be compelled to consider.

What is somewhat amazing to me is that the Supreme Court, while striking down laws that are explicitly anti-abortion in violation of Roe v Wade, isn't striking down laws that are intended to erode Roe v Wade.

For example I'm not opposed to "fetal homicide laws" per se but I object to the wording. The harm is to the woman if her pregnancy is unlawfully terminated by the actions of another person, not the "fetus" that doesn't have any rights. The laws should be written to reflect that it's the woman's rights that are violated as opposed to implying that the fetus as a "child in the womb" (that isn't medical or legal standard) has any rights.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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Originally Posted by RedState View Post
Generally Speaking I do not see any problems. If you win the Presidency you should have a mandate to push through your agenda, assuming its the agenda you ran on. And of course, The Supreme Court has the final say on the constitutionality of EO's, checks and balances! For the Win.

I do think its a bad idea to rely on EO's and going through Congress is a much better option if you want your legislation to last. Look how they are already eroding Obamas legacy because he had no choice but to rely on EO's. But Obama Understood that, I think he was counting on Hillary to win just as much as the rest of us were.

I tend to view it thorough a constitutional lens.
the Executive is only granted by law certain limited powers. And they ENDs at that line. The EOs to often have a legislative nature with are clearly BEYOND the scope of the constitutionally granted executive powers.
It's not so much a matter of "well the people wanted it" as, "is it LEGAL for the president to do it".
in the plain sense of the law, No, it is not.
Executive Orders should only apply as directives UNDER current laws passed by congress. They should not be USURPING or CREATING new laws, rules, or gov't functions.
Doing that is by default unconstitutional no matter if it's a democrat or republican executive in power.
But we've gone SO far off the constitutional track that many people seem to have your view. That Presidents SHOULD ... or somehow DO... have the ability to MAKE UP LAWS and Programs willy nilly UNTIL the Supreme court tells them No.
But as a mater of law that's backwards and illegal from our constitutional set-up and what the framers were trying to prevent. They ...nor I... want a defacto king, with the power to issues edicts at will. All the law making powers reside in the congress period.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:11 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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There actually is the International Planned Parenthood Federation but I'm unsure if this is the organization being referred to.
Welcome to IPPF | IPPF

The Helms Amendment prohibited the use of US funds being used for abortion services but did not prohibit funds from being used for reproductive services unrelated to abortion by a provider that also performs abortions. The executive orders by Obama did not authorize funds to be used for abortions in foreign countries. It removed the restriction that the funds couldn't go to providers that used the funds for non-abortion related reproductive services.

This is basically the same condition that exists under US law where federal funds cannot be used for abortion services but can be used for reproductive services unrelated to abortions by a provider that also performs abortions.

The "debate" is distorted by the anti-abortionists because it's not Pro-Life v Pro-Abortion. It's Pro-Women's Rights v Anti-Women's Rights.

Many or most of those that are Pro-Choice are also Pro-Life. They merely recognize the fact that the only one that has the Right to make the decision about abortion IS THE WOMAN.

The GOP attack on Planned Parenthood, that doesn't use any federal funding for abortion services, is an attack on the Constitution that protects the Rights of a Woman.

This takes me to the question asked in my signature.

Why do Republicans support the UNCONSTITUTIONAL Violation of the Woman's Right to have an Abortion?

Roe v Wade established that fact and despite objections from the Anti-Abortionists the Roe v Wade decision was absolutely correct based upon both prior legal precedent of the "person" throughout recorded history protected by the 14th Amendment and the Natural Rights of the Woman (when the criteria of "personhood is established at birth" was waived as a consideration) protected by the Ninth Amendment .

Why do Republicans Oppose the US Constitution?

This is the burning question that underscores why the GOP cannot be trusted to lead our nation. If they don't support the US Constitution, and they clearly demonstrate that they don't, then how can any American trust them when they control the government?

.....
um
Short answer. there is no constitutional right to GOV"T FUNDED abortions.

And if you believe killing unborn children should be legal in most cases then you're not "PRO-LIFE".

But i am Curious what your definition of "Pro-Life" Is.
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:52 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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But i am Curious what your definition of "Pro-Life" Is.
If replies go the normal way, you will get an answer similar to this:

"Pro-choice is also pro-life!"
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Old 01-24-2017, 09:58 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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Originally Posted by ShivaTD View Post
There actually is the International Planned Parenthood Federation but I'm unsure if this is the organization being referred to.
Welcome to IPPF | IPPF

The Helms Amendment prohibited the use of US funds being used for abortion services but did not prohibit funds from being used for reproductive services unrelated to abortion by a provider that also performs abortions. The executive orders by Obama did not authorize funds to be used for abortions in foreign countries. It removed the restriction that the funds couldn't go to providers that used the funds for non-abortion related reproductive services.

This is basically the same condition that exists under US law where federal funds cannot be used for abortion services but can be used for reproductive services unrelated to abortions by a provider that also performs abortions.

The "debate" is distorted by the anti-abortionists because it's not Pro-Life v Pro-Abortion. It's Pro-Women's Rights v Anti-Women's Rights.

Many or most of those that are Pro-Choice are also Pro-Life. They merely recognize the fact that the only one that has the Right to make the decision about abortion IS THE WOMAN.

The GOP attack on Planned Parenthood, that doesn't use any federal funding for abortion services, is an attack on the Constitution that protects the Rights of a Woman.

This takes me to the question asked in my signature.

Why do Republicans support the UNCONSTITUTIONAL Violation of the Woman's Right to have an Abortion?

Roe v Wade established that fact and despite objections from the Anti-Abortionists the Roe v Wade decision was absolutely correct based upon both prior legal precedent of the "person" throughout recorded history protected by the 14th Amendment and the Natural Rights of the Woman (when the criteria of "personhood is established at birth" was waived as a consideration) protected by the Ninth Amendment .

Why do Republicans Oppose the US Constitution?

This is the burning question that underscores why the GOP cannot be trusted to lead our nation. If they don't support the US Constitution, and they clearly demonstrate that they don't, then how can any American trust them when they control the government?
I don't believe the EO refers to any specific organization. The press did that.

Redd is correct.
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Old 01-24-2017, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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Originally Posted by Manitou View Post
If replies go the normal way, you will get an answer similar to this:
"Pro-choice is also pro-life!"
Yeah, that's what He said, but that's not much of statement.

If i say "Democrat is Also Republican."
Well ok, there might be some truth there but I've some splainin to do before most people start to understand what's being said.
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Old 01-24-2017, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: Trump Signs Executive Order to Defund International Planned Parenthood

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Suddenly EOs are a good thing! Amazing how that happens yanno
If you don't understand the difference between an EO that reinforces actual legislation and an EO that bypasses legislation, than I can't help ya...
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