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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Oftencold I say that the government shouldn't recognize deviant sexual lifestyles at all. Certainly not give them ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2015, 11:13 AM
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Post Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
I say that the government shouldn't recognize deviant sexual lifestyles at all. Certainly not give them any protected class or any special protections to people who practice them. "Gay," "lesbian", and the imaginary "transgendered" should all be meaningless terms to government. and obviously, it should never involve itself in the absurdity of same-sex marriage.
Even though you didn't really answer my question, I'll address your reply.

Protected classes are set up by legislation. Voter initiatives.
Those get voted in because the actual majority recognize people like you as somebody that gays shouldn't have to be troubled with in employment or housing.

And it's not "special" protection. It's equality.
A law that says you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation indicates that you can't discriminate against any straight person because they're straight. Any gay person because they're gay. Any bisexual person because they're bisexual.
EVERYBODY is covered.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-14-2015, 12:02 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Even though you didn't really answer my question, I'll address your reply.

Protected classes are set up by legislation. Voter initiatives.
Those get voted in because the actual majority recognize people like you as somebody that gays shouldn't have to be troubled with in employment or housing.

And it's not "special" protection. It's equality.
A law that says you cannot discriminate based on sexual orientation indicates that you can't discriminate against any straight person because they're straight. Any gay person because they're gay. Any bisexual person because they're bisexual.
EVERYBODY is covered.
Actually, in the case o sexual deviants, I think that a little research will reveal that the protected status is usually created by activist judges.

Why shouldn't gays be "troubled." Isn't that the normal human condition?

And if I don't get to ask if someone is a sexual deviant before I rent them a room, why should they get to claim protected status by trumpeting their problem? It seems that it should be a legally private issue, or a public one, requiring things like registration. How can it justifiably be both?

I also feel, quite strongly, that in a simple rental, the State should have no role whatsoever in dictating, note the verb, who one rents to, or does not rent to, or their reasons or motivations. If a drag queen doesn't want to rent to me, he should be free to refuse, and I should have no legal recourse
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
The ninth amendment. It also allows people the right to be absolute dumbasses with out reprisals from the government
Were that principle in force, we wouldn't be discussing legal protections for people who insist on being defined by their bizarre sexual practices, the Fair Housing Laws would be, as they should, a legal absurdity, and people wouldn't be expected to pretend that there is such a thing as "same-sex marriage" that isn't a vile affront to almost any culture in the world or history.
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Or if you're a traditionalist,
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Last edited by Oftencold; 02-14-2015 at 12:27 PM..
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:26 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Were that principle in force, we wouldn't be discussing legal protections for people who insist on being defined by their bizarre sexual practices, the Fair Housing Laws would be, as they should, a legal absurdity, and people wouldn't be expected to pretend that there is such a thing as "same-sex marriage" that isn't a vile affront to almost any culture int the world or history.
Wow
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Old 02-14-2015, 12:28 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Wow
What part was too difficult for you?
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:03 PM
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Post Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Actually, in the case o sexual deviants, I think that a little research will reveal that the protected status is usually created by activist judges.
Your ignorance is amusing, but trivial in the big picture. Often with people like you, it's what you don't know and refuse to try to comprehend that is your issue.
Judges work off of precedent. Without legislation establishing that the citizenry want sexual orientation to be a characteristic under which certain discrimination is prohibited, judges don't make it so.

Take those "anti-gay wedding baker" situations.
Every single judge ruled off of existing legislation that forbids discrimination in business.

Other judicial situations are founded on such recognition.


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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Why shouldn't gays be "troubled." Isn't that the normal human condition?
Because a majority say we shouldn't be bothered by people of your ilk discriminating against us.
Do yourself a favor and try to do some research.
Show me any court case where a judge ruled in favor of a gay person on business discrimination or housing discrimination where there wasn't legislation on the books (voted in) that protected them.

Or, do your usual trick of trying to pretend you're smart and pretending you have knowledge on a subject you know very little about.

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
And if I don't get to ask if someone is a sexual deviant before I rent them a room, why should they get to claim protected status by trumpeting their problem?
Typically because people who pass these legislations don't trust bigots.

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
It seems that it should be a legally private issue, or a public one, requiring things like registration. How can it justifiably be both?
It is a legally private issue.
Any attempt to institute discrimination in employment or housing based on such factors is NOT a "private issue".

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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
I also feel, quite strongly, that in a simple rental, the State should have no role whatsoever in dictating, note the verb, who one rents to, or does not rent to, or their reasons or motivations. If a drag queen doesn't want to rent to me, he should be free to refuse, and I should have no legal recourse
Bigotry is not protected under law.
If a law were on the books forbidding discrimination based on sexual orientation and somebody did not want to rent to a heterosexual, then that would not be legal.
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Last edited by foundit66; 02-14-2015 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Actually, in the case o sexual deviants, I think that a little research will reveal that the protected status is usually created by activist judges.
I always love reading this argument by social-conservatives.

An "activist judge" is a judge that enforces the US Constitution.

Why don't the social conservatives just be honest and say, "I oppose America and the US Constitution" instead of beating around the bush?
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:31 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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I always love reading this argument by social-conservatives.

An "activist judge" is a judge that enforces the US Constitution.
Was it merely 'enforcing the constitution' in the following cases?

Reno News & Review - Top 10 worst Supreme Court decisions - Feature Story - Local Stories - March 8, 2012

I always love reading people who seem to think SCOTUS judges are somehow politics-free and omniscient, always to be trusted.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 02-15-2015, 09:46 PM
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Post Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Was it merely 'enforcing the constitution' in the following cases?
Reno News & Review - Top 10 worst Supreme Court decisions - Feature Story - Local Stories - March 8, 2012
I always love reading people who seem to think SCOTUS judges are somehow politics-free and omniscient, always to be trusted.
Let's take that football and run over here to the basketball court!

Nobody actually said "SCOTUS judges are somehow politics-free and omniscient, always to be trusted".
If we truly believed that, there would be no reason for the three branches of government having checks and balances. If SCOTUS was always to be trusted, then no reason to place any check on them...

The logical fallacy you present is clear.
There is a huge difference inbetween observing that some people jump to proclamations "activist judges" ...
... and saying that they got the constitution wrong.

In the first, people are habitually saying the judge has no right to make the ruling.
In the second, people are saying that the ruling itself is wrong. (Along with giving a reason why they got it wrong.)
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Old 02-15-2015, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Kansas governor erases protections for LGBT state employees with executive order

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
In the first, people are habitually saying the judge has no right to make the ruling.
In the second, people are saying that the ruling itself is wrong. (Along with giving a reason why they got it wrong.)
And of course we NEVER heard any such comments like the judges had no right to make the ruling in the Bush/Gore case, now did we, for literally YEARS. Habitual? You betcha.


Anyway, I wasn't responding to you, but addressing the assertion (not by you) that what the right calls an "activist judge" is merely a judge that enforces the US Constitution--if people are going to take that approach, then that knife cuts BOTH ways.
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