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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subcommit at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by foundit66 I wanted to engage in RELEVANT discussion to the actual topic . More specifically, when the ...

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2015, 02:26 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I wanted to engage in RELEVANT discussion to the actual topic.
More specifically, when the OP is talking about "human rights" in another country's context, it's glaringly deceitful to suddenly try to pretend that it's just this country's context we should discuss.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Again, who is arguing that?
Hint: NOBODY
No. It's not.
It's not.
Nobody here is saying that.
You're the one harping on "right to pursue happiness". Take it up w yourself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
... historical heterosexuals why they had to set marriage up as a right in the first place. Establishing over 1,000 rights and benefits associated with the governmentally recognized contract. Even the government encourages marriage by providing tax breaks all the above benefits. The societal pressure and questioning of "when are you going to get married?" when older single people are seen. It's a recognized part of society's expectations for life's path.
I agree!!! Govt. should be out of marriage altogether. I've said it for years now. This is the first reasonable thing you've said in awhile. If you find a forum for the discussion of straight marriage, let me know. And by the way, most of those "1000+ rights" are little nitpick things that don't even apply in most cases, and often there are OTHER ways to get the benefit than having govt. interfering in a cultural and ideological institution.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 02-01-2015, 02:42 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
You're the one harping on "right to pursue happiness". Take it up w yourself.
You seriously cannot be this thick.
I have no problem talking about the "pursuit of happiness".
But NOT as a justification for gay marriage.
Got it?

You keep talking about it like we're using it as a justification for marriage. The first post I busted you on you threw out this strawman crap of "If happiness for you is just a freakin' piece of paper ..."
I don't know of anybody who believe "happiness for them is just a freakin' piece of paper".

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
I agree!!!
Considering you are NOT agreeing with my position, you're obviously refusing to address what I'm actually saying.
I'm simply going to repeat what I actually said instead of the deceitful rephrasing to ignore the fact that I was demonstrating a hypocrisy in your position and not agreeing with you...

If you REALLY have a gripe regarding what you said, then maybe you should ask historical heterosexuals why they had to set marriage up as a right in the first place.
Establishing over 1,000 rights and benefits associated with the governmentally recognized contract.

WHY do I never see you raising this complaint within the context of heterosexual marriage when gay marriage is not the topic?
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Old 02-01-2015, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Even the government encourages marriage by providing tax breaks all the above benefits.
Yup! It's about the bennies...

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The societal pressure and questioning of "when are you going to get married?" when older single people are seen. It's a recognized part of society's expectations for life's path.
But they weren't talking about a guy marrying another guy at the time...
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
1) That was IP's definition. Not mine.
2) The phrase is pursuit of happiness. Not just being happy, but the pursuit of happiness.
3) I could say the same of a long list of other rights. Can people be happy with their freedom of speech restricted? Can people be happy without gun ownership? Can people be happy with ___ restricted ?

Obviously people can be happy without gun ownership. So maybe we should rethink why that is included in the Bill of Rights in the first place...




Well said MC.

PURSUIT of happiness is one of the important distinction in that phrase.
And how much "liberty" can people be said to have when their government is allowed to dictate what two consenting adults do together?
Well, then why do we have contract laws, or laws requiring business licenses for otherwise legal transaction?
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Old 02-01-2015, 04:47 PM
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Post Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by indago View Post
Yup! It's about the bennies...
There's a difference inbetween the government providing incentives to do something ...
... and the major reasons why people decide to do that thing.

I have never met anybody who decided they would get married because of the benefits.

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Originally Posted by indago View Post
But they weren't talking about a guy marrying another guy at the time...
How many gay people do you know / are you friends with?

Your reply is most likely more in line with "I don't hear Jonathan talking about that" when the truth is more that you don't talk to Jonathan in the first damn place so it's more accurate that you can't really comment on those conversations in the first place.


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Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
Well, then why do we have contract laws, or laws requiring business licenses for otherwise legal transaction?
Typically to protect people from potential fraud, etc...
e.g. financial harm.
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Old 02-01-2015, 07:26 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You seriously cannot be this thick.
I have no problem talking about the "pursuit of happiness".
But NOT as a justification for gay marriage.
Got it? You keep talking about it like we're using it as a justification for marriage.
Did you miss my very first sentence? (Or just dishonestly ignore it?)
"Seems to me no one has been prevented from "pursuing happiness" in this context since the days of sodomy laws."
NADA about gay marriage there.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I don't know of anybody who believe "happiness for them is just a freakin' piece of paper".
Well I was assuming you had to be since anyone in the right mind knows that the 'pursuit of happiness' when it comes to gays bumpin' uglies ISN'T forbidden (if that's what they want to pursue), as I pointed out in my very first sentence about sodomy laws. I think you're just having problems following things here.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Considering you are NOT agreeing with my position, you're obviously refusing to address what I'm actually saying.
You said it should be taken up "that historical heterosexuals of why they had to set marriage up as a right in the first place." I agree. I realize you weren't actually trying to make a valid point o argumentation and was just trying to do a 'gotcha' as usual. But humorous nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
WHY do I never see you raising this complaint within the context of heterosexual marriage when gay marriage is not the topic?
And I noted elsewhere that there is no straight marriage forum. A rational person might, just might realize that may have something to do with the answer to your question.
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Old 02-02-2015, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Did you miss my very first sentence? (Or just dishonestly ignore it?)
"Seems to me no one has been prevented from "pursuing happiness" in this context since the days of sodomy laws."
NADA about gay marriage there.
Don't play stupid.
You introduced your comment on gay marriage much earlier.

And now you want to play stupid like that wasn't what we were talking about all along???


In fact, the very next thing you reply to is me talking about YOUR comment on gay marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
You keep talking about it like we're using it as a justification for marriage. The first post I busted you on you threw out this strawman crap of "If happiness for you is just a freakin' piece of paper ..."
I don't know of anybody who believe "happiness for them is just a freakin' piece of paper".
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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Well I was assuming you had to ...
That was your foolish mistake.
You made it worse when you were told that was NOT what was happening, but you persisted in your stupid assumption anyways.

The problem with you is that people will tell you that they want A because of B.
And then you will waste an ungodly amount of time trying to insist that they actually want it because of C.
And then even when people correct you and say "No. Not because of C".
You will still turn around and try to insist that they don't know their own opinions.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
You said it should be taken up "that historical heterosexuals of why they had to set marriage up as a right in the first place." I agree.
Oh gawd you are thick.
I am not the one having the problem with this current legal marriage landscape situation.
There is nothing for ME to "take up" with them regarding how they instituted over 1,000 rights and privileges for marriage, because I do not care.
But then you STILL get confused and you think I should take it up with them because you have a problem with it.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
And I noted elsewhere that there is no straight marriage forum. A rational person might, just might realize that may have something to do with the answer to your question.
And I noted elsewhere that there are plenty of marriage threads which you COULD comment on, but instead you fixate on gays (and that is why you solely talk about it in context of gays) so when it's about straight marriage you don't even have a comment.

The stupid part for you is that the list of rights and privileges associated with marriage GROWS over time.
But you don't care. You don't notice.
It doesn't have "gays" in the headline so you're oblivious to it.

Like I said earlier.
You're the guy who claims to want to lower TEEN PREGNANCY.
But then you only lambast BLACK teen pregnancy, revealing the true roots of your prejudice.
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Old 02-03-2015, 08:07 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Don't play stupid.
You introduced your comment on gay marriage much earlier.
Dude, you are the KING of pointing things out on the side. Yet someone else does it and you hypocritically attack them over it. Get it together, man.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
That was your foolish mistake.
I know! I've got to start remembering more often that one can't assume you will be aware of the obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
Oh gawd you are thick.
I am not the one having the problem with this current legal marriage landscape situation.
There is nothing for ME to "take up"
I didn't say YOU should do so.
My god man. Have you just given up reading comprehension altogether now?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
And I noted elsewhere that there are plenty of marriage threads which you COULD comment on....
I did your two you posted, just for you and your sensibilites!
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 02-04-2015, 10:08 AM
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Post Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Dude, you are the KING of pointing things out on the side.
Gawd Joe. Moving the goalposts again.
I am not complaining that you pointed something out on the side.
I am pointing out YOU STARTED that comment, and then later you play stupid and pretend you didn't.
THAT is the problem. You playing stupid when it comes to YOU starting the discussion on claiming gays were pursuing marriage because we needed it to be happy.
YOU started that strawman argument. not any gay person. THAT is the point that was being made.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
I know! I've got to start remembering more often that one can't assume you will be aware of the obvious.
Yet again, you make a mistake.
You blame others.

And your retort is incredibly idiotic when you were assuming other people's motivations.
It's not a situation of "aware of the obvious".
You were WRONG when you proclaimed gays were pursuing marriage because they needed it to be happy.
That's not an "obvious" situation. You were wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
I did your two you posted, just for you and your sensibilites!
And that's the last we'll see you comment on straight marriage until the next time this myopic fixation is pointed out.
At the end of the day, heterosexuals have over 1,000 rights and privileges. That's something they have voted in individually or in small groups for themselves over MANY decades. Centuries.

And all the while this continues to happen, you will not have one iota of comment.
They'll continue to grow the number of their rights and privileges.
But you won't say one word on any of them.
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Last edited by foundit66; 02-04-2015 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 02-04-2015, 03:43 PM
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Default Re: 'I Do Not Construe Homosexual Rights As Human Rights' Says GOP Human Rights Subco

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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
Except that's NOT in the US Constitution, which enumerates rights...

What you pointed out is in the Declaration of Independence...

But don't worry...Nancy doesn't get it either...
And? The declaration of independence has been cited in supreme court decisions on numerous occasions and is part of our common law.

So yes, they are rights. They are not enumerated rights but they are rights nonetheless.
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