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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn yeah this is not just oh I asked my minister to marry me and he wouldn't. ...

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-20-2014, 07:20 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
yeah this is not just oh I asked my minister to marry me and he wouldn't. these people make a living from a wedding chapel.
that said I dont know why anyone wud want them to marry them if they are against gay marriage. I'm pretty sure there must be tons of chapels in C'ordilain
well I was wrong, looks like there might only be two

https://www.google.com/search?num=50...24.6IJinVqX6n0
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:39 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

This shows the intolerance of the gay, (mafia,) community. They find a target and then zero in for the kill because they don't tow the homosexual line. The gay community is not looking for equality or justice, they like many blacks today, (Ferguson being a prime example,) is looking for revenge of past grievances.

Most people in a situation where a business will not work for them will move on and find another, but the intolerant gays community this isn't good enough they must bring down any and all people who don't worship the gay agenda.

They will keep pushing until people get sick and tired of it and it will eventually blow up in their face.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:13 PM
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Post Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
This shows the intolerance of the gay, (mafia,) community. They find a target and then zero in for the kill because they don't tow the homosexual line. The gay community is not looking for equality or justice, they like many blacks today, (Ferguson being a prime example,) is looking for revenge of past grievances.
Most people in a situation where a business will not work for them will move on and find another, but the intolerant gays community this isn't good enough they must bring down any and all people who don't worship the gay agenda.
They will keep pushing until people get sick and tired of it and it will eventually blow up in their face.
How the *#$@ is this "gay mafia"?
It's the city enforcing existing law.

The chapel breaks the law, but it's the victim's fault for pointing it out?


As for "backlash", you think that maybe a majority passed law doesn't have a majority support for said law?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty
Most people in a situation where a business will not work for them will move on and find another...
I'll remember those words next time somebody starts whining about how much liberals hate Christianity ...

You sure byatch up a storm when you're pretending you're a victim, when there is no actual discrimination at play...
... but when gays are actually discriminated against, you blame the victim for pointing it out.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
How the *#$@ is this "gay mafia"?
It's the city enforcing existing law.

The chapel breaks the law, but it's the victim's fault for pointing it out?


As for "backlash", you think that maybe a majority passed law doesn't have a majority support for said law?



I'll remember those words next time somebody starts whining about how much liberals hate Christianity ...

You sure byatch up a storm when you're pretending you're a victim, when there is no actual discrimination at play...
... but when gays are actually discriminated against, you blame the victim for pointing it out.
The majority of the people voted, like in many states not to recognize gay marriage and the courts have shot those measures down. The law now comes out of a liberal legislature or liberal city council, there is no majority of the people. The will of the people has been ignored.

Religious people all across the country who own businesses are being denied their first amendment rights, but in your mind that is OK as long as the gay agenda is being worshiped.

No business should be forced to do what is against the belief's of the owner, not matter what. If the people do not agree they would surely take their business else where and that business would go under, but that isn't good enough for the pro gay lobby, no sir, these people must be made an example of and punished with threats of jail and huge fines to satisfy the so called tolerant left.

No one is playing victim here unless of course you think stating facts is being a victim. And yes, liberals do seem to hate Christianity since we find out that it is mostly the left that seems to be offended by any mention of the word God.
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Old 10-20-2014, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
The majority of the people voted, like in many states not to recognize gay marriage and the courts have shot those measures down. The law now comes out of a liberal legislature or liberal city council, there is no majority of the people. The will of the people has been ignored.
The rights of all people have been preserved.
Once again, a majority cannot trample the rights of a minority just because a majority don't want to recognize them. You should know this.

Regarding the city ordnance, that was passed by a legal mechanism.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Religious people all across the country who own businesses are being denied their first amendment rights, but in your mind that is OK as long as the gay agenda is being worshiped.
Look. I've given up on you having honesty on this issue.
But my approach is no different from any other group that has been protected in the past.
When blacks were protected against business discrimination, we NEVER handed out free discrimination cards to people who proclaimed a religious justification for their racism.
Likewise with RELIGIOUS discrimination protection.
This is the same standard that has existed for other groups which have been protected for several decades.

And not only do we hear this NEW complaint now, but we ONLY hear it on the gay issue.
Face it. The real root of the issue is that you don't want gays to be covered. Period.
You lost that battle in many places. And as such, the same standards apply that were used for other groups in the past.

You aren't a victim.
You're just a supporter of discrimination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
No business should be forced to do what is against the belief's of the owner, not matter what. If the people do not agree they would surely take their business else where and that business would go under, but that isn't good enough for the pro gay lobby, no sir, these people must be made an example of and punished with threats of jail and huge fines to satisfy the so called tolerant left.
Why do you single out gays?
WHY do you have no comment for the exact same protections covering blacks or whites or Jews or Christians?


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
No one is playing victim here unless of course you think stating facts is being a victim.
ROFLMAO!
Sure. Whatever you say...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
And yes, liberals do seem to hate Christianity since we find out that it is mostly the left that seems to be offended by any mention of the word God.
I invite the viewing audience to recognize that the above two quoted sections were in the same paragraph...
And MrLiberty SERIOUSLY cannot recognize the disjoint in those two sentences...

The really stupid part of his complaint is most liberals are Christian.
But of course, why let the facts matter in his victimhood complex.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
The rights of all people have been preserved.
Once again, a majority cannot trample the rights of a minority just because a majority don't want to recognize them. You should know this.

Regarding the city ordnance, that was passed by a legal mechanism.



Look. I've given up on you having honesty on this issue.
But my approach is no different from any other group that has been protected in the past.
When blacks were protected against business discrimination, we NEVER handed out free discrimination cards to people who proclaimed a religious justification for their racism.
Likewise with RELIGIOUS discrimination protection.
This is the same standard that has existed for other groups which have been protected for several decades.

And not only do we hear this NEW complaint now, but we ONLY hear it on the gay issue.
Face it. The real root of the issue is that you don't want gays to be covered. Period.
You lost that battle in many places. And as such, the same standards apply that were used for other groups in the past.

You aren't a victim.
You're just a supporter of discrimination.



Why do you single out gays?
WHY do you have no comment for the exact same protections covering blacks or whites or Jews or Christians?



ROFLMAO!
Sure. Whatever you say...



I invite the viewing audience to recognize that the above two quoted sections were in the same paragraph...
And MrLiberty SERIOUSLY cannot recognize the disjoint in those two sentences...

The really stupid part of his complaint is most liberals are Christian.
But of course, why let the facts matter in his victimhood complex.
The rights of the people have certainly not been preserved, when you are forced to associate with people the government says you must associate with. Pesky first amendment, but hey it's only the Constitution, the law of the land that is being trampled.

The problem I have with what you are calling an argument is you want special rights for certain classes of people. If you have to have special privileges and are to be protected then you are more equal than the rest of us.

Not a victim, nor do I support discrimination I support the Constitution and the first amendment, something that is foreign to you I guess.

The rest of your post I will let stand as an example of your snarky put downs and snide comments to other posters who happen to be conservative.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:50 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
The rights of the people have certainly not been preserved, when you are forced to associate with people the government says you must associate with. Pesky first amendment, but hey it's only the Constitution, the law of the land that is being trampled.

The problem I have with what you are calling an argument is you want special rights for certain classes of people. If you have to have special privileges and are to be protected then you are more equal than the rest of us.

Not a victim, nor do I support discrimination I support the Constitution and the first amendment, something that is foreign to you I guess.

The rest of your post I will let stand as an example of your snarky put downs and snide comments to other posters who happen to be conservative.

Non eisnbeing forced to associate with anybody. Whom has been forced a place of public accommodation ?
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Old 10-20-2014, 10:39 PM
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Post Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
The rights of the people have certainly not been preserved, when you are forced to associate with people the government says you must associate with. Pesky first amendment, but hey it's only the Constitution, the law of the land that is being trampled.
Business is not an "association".


Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
The problem I have with what you are calling an argument is you want special rights for certain classes of people. If you have to have special privileges and are to be protected then you are more equal than the rest of us.
This has been explained to you repeatedly in the past.
EVERYBODY IS COVERED
When the law specifies "sexual orientation", that means everybody cause everybody has a sexual orientation. The law doesn't say "just gays". It protects EVERYBODY.
When the law specifies "race", that means everybody cause everybody has a race. The law doesn't say "just blacks". It protects EVERYBODY.
When the law specifies "religion", that means everybody cause everybody has a religion. (Acknowledging atheists may argue with that claim) The law doesn't say "just Jews" or "just Christians". It protects EVERYBODY.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
Not a victim, nor do I support discrimination I support the Constitution and the first amendment, something that is foreign to you I guess.
1) So, when somebody's rights are violated, they aren't victims to you?
What word should I use then.

2) You do not support discrimination, except when it comes to gays...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrLiberty View Post
The rest of your post I will let stand as an example of your snarky put downs and snide comments to other posters who happen to be conservative.
Ohhh. The victim is wounded!

No. My comments are arguments you are ignoring.
And they are not for "other posters who happen to be conservative".
They are arguments for you. Stop trying to pretend others are mired in this faux victimology you profess.

I'll repeat it since you refuse to address it.
Most liberals are Christian.
But of course, why let the facts matter in his victimhood complex. In his mind, liberals have to be persecuting the Christians...
It's a conspiracy dontcha know!
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post

Don't "lol" at that question. It's a serious one.

If they are running a business, it's not "religious". Businesses don't have religions.
If they are a bona fide church and NOT a business, then the government has no sway.

After having seen cases like this in the past and seeing the name "Hitching Post Wedding Chapel", it seem rather obvious they ARE a business.

If they want RELIGIOUS protections, then OPERATE as a church and NOT a business. It's that simple.
If they operate as a business, then they fall under BUSINESS rules.

And a quick google search indicates they ARE a for profit business.
And this WAS explained to them...
For-Profit Wedding Chapel Sues After Idaho Legalizes Same-Sex Marriage | ThinkProgress
At the time, Coeur d’Alene City Attorney Warren Wilson explained, “If you turn away a gay couple, refuse to provide services for them, then in theory you violated our code and you’re looking at a potential misdemeanor citation.” Wilson clarified that religious entities are exempt under the city ordinance, but apparently told Mr. Knapp at the time that the Hitching Post was not exempt because it is a business, not a religious corporation like a church.

....
The city’s ordinance does provide an exemption for “religious corporations,” but the Hitching Post is not run by a church.
Riddle me this mr. wonder...
What religion does Mr. Knapp belong to?
Does Donald Knapp perform ANY OTHER RELIGIOUS ACTIONS that normal pastors / priests would perform?
Or is he simply licensed by the state to perform weddings and that's all he does... :blush
So Christians who own a business have no say in how it's run then?
So can Chic-Fil-a close in on Sundays?
Can A local Roman Catholic pharmacy owner refuse to carry morning after pills?
Can A Muslim bookstore owner refuse to order anti-Muslim books for any even homosexual customers?
Can a Jewish deli owner refuse to sell pork to customers or even homosexual customers with a sausage fetish?
Are they all bigots and "breaking equal access laws" if they do?

THEY ARE ALL CLEARLY BUSINESSES.

Please explain the differences here. I see none.
All are Private Businesses with Religious owners who refuse to serve certain customers request for religious reasons.
period. All significant points legal and otherwise exactly the same.

If one is discriminatory, then they all are.
By your standard Found they all must be ordained and take their "businesses" INSIDE the Church or be in violation of the law.
And be considered religious bigots of course.
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Old 10-20-2014, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: to Ministers in U.S. City: Marry gays or else

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Originally Posted by mr. wonder View Post
So Christians who own a business have no say in how it's run then?
Of course they do. Can they turn away a Muslim, Jew, Gay person,etc. from coming into their store and purchasing the products offered?


Quote:
So can Chic-Fil-a close in on Sundays?
or what ever day of the week they want want to.


Quote:
Can A local Roman Catholic pharmacy owner refuse to carry morning after pills?
No they may not. They are a pharmacy not a religious institution.


Quote:
Can A Muslim bookstore owner refuse to order anti-Muslim books for any even homosexual customers?
Of course they can. Can they deny service to non-Muslims?

Quote:
Can a Jewish deli owner refuse to sell pork to customers with a sausage fetish?
Of course they can. Just don't carry it. Can they deny service to Muslims, Christians or Pagans?

Quote:
Please explain the differences here. I see none.
I just did explain the difference.
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