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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Joe Shoe Puhleasse. Mardi Gras and spring break trips are just an excuse to party. Nobody is ...

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 07-09-2013, 02:37 PM
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Post Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Puhleasse. Mardi Gras and spring break trips are just an excuse to party. Nobody is billing them as civil rights actions or celebrations of pride.
Is that somehow relevant to the offense present in such actions?

If a 7-year old were to see nudity in Mardis Gras, would his young mind go "Well, they aren't doing this as part of a civil rights action, so there's no real problem here..." ??


It is ridiculously obvious how you fumble for any excuse to avoid acknowledging the equivalence of the situation. Trying to justify your fixation on gay issues while you ignore straight counter-parts doing the exact same thing...
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:49 PM
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Default Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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Honestly Joe, sometimes you say things that are astoundingly stupid.
Personal attacks don't help your position. I seem you still don't get that.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
More generically, it’s quite obvious that those against gay marriage DO care.
Not in the sense you seem to think. It's really just people trying to maintain society institutions and preferring not to see people not redefine things like marriage. It's not so much they care about the "gay" issue specifically.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
After the sodomy laws were revoked . . .
Actually sodomy laws are a good example of what *I'M* talking about. Society doesn't really care that much about sodomy. That's WHY they let the laws be changed.

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Such comments from you are obviously a lame attempt to pretend the loss is not significant to try to undercut gays.
Even if that were what is going on, how on earth would something like that even "undercut gays"? You're grasping at straws as usual.

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On the flip side with pro-gay marriage, I can’t think of ANY movement which has achieved so much, so quickly.
Again, society is pretty darn generous.

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This is a b.s. lie on your part. It astounds me how often you seem to forget what you said in the immediate prior post in the discussion….
You just got finished claiming that people had “the sympathies of society”.
You clearly DID claim to “know about how other people feel about gays”.
You're making a very simple but common error--my point is about what society DOESN'T feel about gays, rather than what they DO. Clearly, it's not a very big deal to most people. I suspect you, like many gay priders, probably THINK it is because of the constant news cycle giving your movement so much constant undue attention. It creates an unintended sense of narcissism and people start thinking what they're up to is a lot more important than it actually is. The media today is clamoring so hard for a new supposedly 'liberal' cause, it's just sad. Civil rights movements used to be about REAL problems. Not little percentages of people trying to get in on a marriage bandwagon with whatever arrangement they are up to.

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
1) It’s the truth.
2) How would you phrase it?
3) Can you admit any blame for reparative therapy for the increase in suicide rate?

I’m betting you refuse to answer #3 with intellectual honesty.
I've answered you #3 many times and explained why you're wrong. The issue is too complex to blithely and over-simplistically claim they are to be blamed for suicides. And that IS the intellectually honest position. It's your intentionally over-simplistic position that is the DISHONEST one.

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Who is arguing for that?
Not me.
Really???
So you're fine with reparative therapy as it is as long as they address people committing suicide?

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
A nonsensical reply as there is nothing inherent regarding being gay that causes suicide.
That is not the case with reparative therapy suicide victims.
What 'inherent' in reparative therapy causes suicide? Be careful. Prove your assertions.

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That’s like saying a person goes to a doctor for a cold, and then the doctor infects the person with Hepatitus.
Going to deal with gay-tendencies is hardly comparable to having a cold. People going to reparative therapy are often on their last hope. You forget, people that are to the point of seeking therapy for something are ALREADY much more likely to commit suicide. So blaming the therapy for it makes little sense. That's just an excuse to attack the reparative therapy movement.
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Last edited by Joe Shoe; 07-09-2013 at 02:57 PM..
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Old 07-09-2013, 02:51 PM
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Default Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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Is that somehow relevant to the offense present in such actions?
It is when the movement the parade represents is trying to pass itself off as mainstream and family-friendly. It's called hypocrisy. Mardi Gras is about nothing more than an excuse to party.
Again, if a 4th of July parade had some nude people in the parade, you would expect there to be some outrage. So you shouldn't be surprised when there is over pride parades.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:06 PM
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Post Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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It is when the movement the parade represents is trying to pass itself off as mainstream and family-friendly.
That's your claim regarding the parade's purpose / the purpose of the nudists in the parade.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
It's called hypocrisy. Mardi Gras is about nothing more than an excuse to party.
"hypocrisy"?
You need to look up the meaning of the word.
hypocrisy: The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

WHO is claiming an anti-nude moral standard but their behavior does not conform?

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Again, if a 4th of July parade had some nude people in the parade, you would expect there to be some outrage. So you shouldn't be surprised when there is over pride parades.
I'm not.
It's THE CONCLUSION YOU DERIVE onto the entirety of the gay pride movement that is objected to.

We wouldn't judge all Americans based on some nudity at a 4th of July parade.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:32 PM
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Post Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Personal attacks don't help your position. I seem you still don't get that.
It seems you still try to claim offense where none was given.
I said you SAY profoundly stupid stuff.
Whether you yourself are profoundly stupid is not something I commented on...

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Not in the sense you seem to think. It's really just people trying to maintain society institutions and preferring not to see people not redefine things like marriage. It's not so much they care about the "gay" issue specifically.
Again, you proclaim to know how people (both myself and others) think, and you provide no evidence to your claim.
On the flip side, you are very wrong regarding your attempted generalization.
If this were JUST about gay MARRIAGE, then the opponents of gay marriage would have no problem with recognizing gay civil unions (which are not marriage)

However, polls show that a majority of those who oppose gay marriage ALSO OPPOSE civil unions. So it's obviously NOT JUST about "redefining" marriage, but rather there is clear anomosity towards gays in preventing them even a "separate" equivalence.
Majority Continues To Support Civil Unions - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

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Actually sodomy laws are a good example of what *I'M* talking about. Society doesn't really care that much about sodomy. That's WHY they let the laws be changed.
"they let"?
ROFLMAO!
Joe, the Texas Republican party wants to bring sodomy laws back.
That's a far cry from "not caring".
Texas GOP: Recriminalize Sodomy and Make it a Felony to Marry Gay Couples | Care2 Causes

Over and over again in these threads, you keep proclaiming how you THINK things are but you present absolutely no facts to back it up.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Even if that were what is going on, how on earth would something like that even "undercut gays"?
Perpetually give focus to negative things you stereo-type onto gays and insist that the victories are trivial.

You know. What you're doing....

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Again, society is pretty darn generous.
Racial prejudice is typically MORE reviled than anti-gay prejudice.
Yet anti-gay prejudice makes much quicker advances.
You chalk that up to "generous" doesn't explain the discrepancy.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
You're making a very simple but common error
In expecting any honesty from you?
No Joe. I don't expect any honesty from you.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
my point is about what society DOESN'T feel about gays, rather than what they DO. Clearly, it's not a very big deal to most people. I suspect you, like many gay priders, probably THINK it is because of the constant news cycle giving your movement so much constant undue attention. It creates an unintended sense of narcissism and people start thinking what they're up to is a lot more important than it actually is.
Again, you say things that only demonstrate how clueless you are.
This has nothing to do with "narcissism", although I'm not surprised you toss out that abysmally stupid criticism. I don't think anything "more" of myself because I'm gay.

The reality of the situation is that the marriage rights we are talking about ARE important. Any pretense to the contrary would undercut other similar situations like the Loving v Virginia victory.
Was the Loving couple being "narcissistic" cause they sought and won equality?
No.

Honestly Joe, your efforts are just too ridiculous for anybody to take seriously.

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The media today is clamoring so hard for a new supposedly 'liberal' cause, it's just sad. Civil rights movements used to be about REAL problems. Not little percentages of people trying to get in on a marriage bandwagon with whatever arrangement they are up to.
Was miscegenation a "real" problem?


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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
I've answered you #3 many times and explained why you're wrong. The issue is too complex to blithely and over-simplistically claim they are to be blamed for suicides. And that IS the intellectually honest position. It's your intentionally over-simplistic position that is the DISHONEST one.
Predictably, refused to answer the question.
You'll note I said ANY blame.
In the past, you have definitely quibbled and complaind about assigning blame to the reparative therapists, but I'm trying to get you to admit if you think ANY (in other words, > 0%) can be assigned to reparative therapy based on the resultant suicides.

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So you're fine with reparative therapy as it is as long as they address people committing suicide?
I swear. You are eternally moving the goal-posts.
I said I am not for banning reparative therapy.
That doesn't mean there isn't a LOT wrong with it and even more that they need to fix beyond "addressing people committing suicide".

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
What 'inherent' in reparative therapy causes suicide? Be careful. Prove your assertions.
That is a hilarious demand coming from you, who RARELY do I see provide justification for your claims.
Reparative therapy habitually incorporates a demonization of gays. This has been documented too many timse to deny.

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Going to deal with gay-tendencies is hardly comparable to having a cold. People going to reparative therapy are often on their last hope. You forget, people that are to the point of seeking therapy for something are ALREADY much more likely to commit suicide. So blaming the therapy for it makes little sense. That's just an excuse to attack the reparative therapy movement.
Again, you fail to grasp the significance of the situation.
If somebody is suicidal and DOES NOT seek help, then the therapy cannot be blamed.
If somebody is suicidal and GETS THERAPY (reparative therapy) HELP, then obviously the therapist should have some inherent responsibility to ascertain the overall mental health of the person.

It's like going to a doctor for a hacking cough, but (in your scenario) then the doctor fails to diagnose lung cancer because he wants to change the person to no longer be gay.
Obviously, there is something inherently %@#$ed up with that doctor.
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:47 PM
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Post Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

Joe, one of the things I find hilarious about your "people just don't care" comments is that using you as a specific example, it's obvious you DO care.
On this board and others, you have devoted an astounding amount of time fixating on the gay issue.

Moreover, as I've told you in the past, when you specifically don't post on gay issues and start threads on gay issues, most people DO NOT talk about it that much.
It's you who gets the ball rolling...
... and then you turn around with these stupid "narcissistic" comments because it is talked about.

If you think gay issues are talked about too much...
... then WHY do you spend so much time talking about them?
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Old 07-09-2013, 03:53 PM
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Default Re: Christian Preachers Brutally Beaten at Gay Pride Festival

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Puhleasse. Mardi Gras and spring break trips are just an excuse to party. Nobody is billing them as civil rights actions or celebrations of pride.
And the "billing" of them changes what they are exactly how, numbnutz?
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