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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Denied at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by saltwn Seriously you have to jump through hoops all the time in America (in life in general) ...

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Old 06-20-2013, 11:06 PM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Seriously you have to jump through hoops all the time in America (in life in general) to dot someone's I's and cross their T's for them. She'd better get used to it.
Religious tests are unconstitutional. It's hard for me to believe that you think it's ok for her to be required to get a letter from a church saying she has joined in order to be a citizen.

I've never had to join a church, to vote or to be a citizen or to object to killing people for this country.

Why do you think it's ok to require her to join a church to show an objection to war? Are only churchy people moral enough to object to killing?
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Old 06-20-2013, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Interesting...

I find this sad to be honest. They expect her to lie essentially to protect the freedom she will be granted upon approval.
Sad indeed and many would lie due to their belief in situational ethics..
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Old 06-21-2013, 02:06 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by off the porch View Post
Religious tests are unconstitutional. It's hard for me to believe that you think it's ok for her to be required to get a letter from a church saying she has joined in order to be a citizen.

I've never had to join a church, to vote or to be a citizen or to object to killing people for this country.

Why do you think it's ok to require her to join a church to show an objection to war? Are only churchy people moral enough to object to killing?
She doesn't have to do anything. She can take the oath. Or not take it. But she can't expect the world to turn over for her. The law is you take the oath if you want to be a citizen. There are exceptions. Those are religious exceptions. Same thing if she wants to enter children into school here. They have to have immunizations. There are exceptions. Religious exceptions.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
She doesn't have to do anything. She can take the oath. Or not take it. But she can't expect the world to turn over for her. The law is you take the oath if you want to be a citizen. There are exceptions. Those are religious exceptions. Same thing if she wants to enter children into school here. They have to have immunizations. There are exceptions. Religious exceptions.
If you bothered to read, there were other non-religious exceptions to taking the oath.

So again... Why is she taking the oath.

AND, if it said your kid had to have pierced ears to go to school that would be fine because it's the law.

The point is that the law is wrong. Especially how it is applied.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:52 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
She doesn't have to do anything. She can take the oath. Or not take it. But she can't expect the world to turn over for her. The law is you take the oath if you want to be a citizen. There are exceptions. Those are religious exceptions. Same thing if she wants to enter children into school here. They have to have immunizations. There are exceptions. Religious exceptions.
?? Requiring kids be immunized is NOT the same as requiring someone BELIEVE something.
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Old 06-21-2013, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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?? Requiring kids be immunized is NOT the same as requiring someone BELIEVE something.
Well it kinda can be...

It's all about state action forcing action that is easily against the personal beliefs of the individual.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

Fortunately, it looks like somebody came to their senses.
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There’s finally good news to report:
Congressman Blake Farenthold (R-TX) took action on this and his office sent Doughty a wonderful response earlier today:
“This Service hereby withdraws the request for evidence (RFE) issued on June 7, 2013. This Service accepts your detailed statement in satisfaction of the information requested by the RFE. Your application for naturalization has been approved.”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...been-approved/

As pointed out earlier, the courts have already ruled that the military conscientious objector status has to also cover sincere, non-religious beliefs.
This is no different.
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by off the porch View Post
Why do you think it's ok to require her to join a church to show an objection to war? Are only churchy people moral enough to object to killing?
She USED the religious aspect as a defense for her conscientious objection...The response is simply "Prove you're not lying to us."...
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

She's lived here 30 years, but, hates the requirements for her to become a citizen. So why become a citizen then if she hates the rules?
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Old 06-21-2013, 10:27 AM
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Default Re: Margaret Doughty, Atheist Seeking U.S. Citizenship, Told To Join Church Or Be Den

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
She is now an atheist.
She could easily have followed a religion in prior years, thus constituting the statement. The "spiritual / religious beliefs" comment could be an acknowledgement of her past basis for that belief.
I don't see why that should be a focal point.
She stated these were her lifelong religious beliefs. I don't care if she's atheist or pentacostal. She needs to demonstrate why she's so special she doesn't have to sign the same pledge everyone else does when she's seeking inclusion. If she doesn't want to make the necessary steps to ask for inclusion, she can get to steppin'.
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