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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church at the Political Forums; Originally Posted by Pat Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church | UK news | ...

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:37 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

Gays already get married in churches. Just some churches don't allow it due to their beliefs. Same thing with divorced people. Many sects of Baptists and others will not marry a couple where one of them is divorced.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 02-13-2011, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by saltwn View Post
Gays already get married in churches. Just some churches don't allow it due to their beliefs. Same thing with divorced people. Many sects of Baptists and others will not marry a couple where one of them is divorced.
Evidently, they can't get married in churches in the UK.
Did you read the linked article?
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Old 02-13-2011, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by Pat View Post
Evidently, they can't get married in churches in the UK.
Did you read the linked article?
nope.
so I read it. Evidently the Church of England is more tied to the govt of the UK than our churches are. Yeah bully for freedom of religion , one reason we had a revolution...
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Old 02-14-2011, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by foundit66 View Post
I think a lot of people who talk about separating "marriage" from the government just plain don't understand HOW it is entangled in the first place.
And they don't seem to fully understand the implications of the dis-entanglement.

Take the power to make medical decisions for your spouse. Just one of over 1,000 rights and privileges that the government "entangles" themselves with...

If the government removes this, what is left?
Well, there are already laws establishing familial (non-spouse) decision making.
This is part of what played out in the Terri Schiavo case. The husband had legislation backing his position of being able to make decisions for Terri, which the family was challenging based on their legal standing.
If we remove the laws helping the husband, leaving the other family protections, is that really what we want?


It's very easy to claim "let's remove government from marriage", but we ignore all the circumstances where people WANT government protection for married couples...

"Divorce" is another area of protection whereby the government's involvement in marriage (specifically the ending of it) is desired, although everybody has different opinions of how it should be...
Those things can be handled without marriage contracts.
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Old 02-14-2011, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Those things can be handled without marriage contracts.
The financial questions generally cannot... And functionally, a marriage contract automatically disperses these rights without having to "fight" for them.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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The financial questions generally cannot... And functionally, a marriage contract automatically disperses these rights without having to "fight" for them.
Sure the financial things can. Just about anything can be drawn up into a contract.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
Sure the financial things can. Just about anything can be drawn up into a contract.
Taxation is a HUGE aspect of the financial problem, and a contract outside of marriage doesn't fix that problem. AND contracts that would control many financial issues between two people who are do so for "relationship" interests would be considered non-binding as it's merely a moral obligation and not a true business transaction...

You should see the cases that are thrown out because the courts don't recognize moral obligations between two un-married parties.
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Old 02-14-2011, 05:59 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by dabateman View Post
Taxation is a HUGE aspect of the financial problem, and a contract outside of marriage doesn't fix that problem. AND contracts that would control many financial issues between two people who are do so for "relationship" interests would be considered non-binding as it's merely a moral obligation and not a true business transaction...

You should see the cases that are thrown out because the courts don't recognize moral obligations between two un-married parties.
Married people shouldn't get tax breaks. Hence the whole point that the govt need not be involved in our relationships.

The contracts could easily be drawn up as business transactions. Aside from that, maybe people should just be responsible for their own finances and not use the government to determine that crap for them.
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Old 02-14-2011, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Gay couples may soon be able to tie the knot in church

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
Married people shouldn't get tax breaks. Hence the whole point that the govt need not be involved in our relationships.

The contracts could easily be drawn up as business transactions. Aside from that, maybe people should just be responsible for their own finances and not use the government to determine that crap for them.
1) Married people, for the purposes of taxation, should be able to have the option to be considered a single unit if they so choose. We allow partnerships in which taxation is spread out amongst the partners, and we allow corporations which is one tax entity. There is no reason why we should not permit the same for individuals.

2) Moral obligations that are posed as business transactions are rejected by the courts.

3) People ARE responsible for their own finances, but if the government is going to tax, then government policy applies.
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