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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy at the Political Forums; Truth Wins Out (TWO) revealed today that the nation’s largest “ex-gay” organization, Exodus International, officially cut ties with its Lansing ...

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Old 12-20-2009, 10:18 PM
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Post Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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Truth Wins Out (TWO) revealed today that the nation’s largest “ex-gay” organization, Exodus International, officially cut ties with its Lansing affiliate Corduroy Stone after charges were made by an ex-gay survivor that the sessions included harmful and bizarre therapy. In August, Patrick McAlvey made the charges against Corduroy Stone’s Mike Jones in a Truth Wins Out video, yet it took Exodus until December to take action. Exodus’ dithering in the face of scandal cost precious time and may have placed additional youth in harm’s way, according to Truth Wins Out.

“For decades Exodus International has lent this predator some level of credibility,” ex-gay survivor Patrick McAlvey told Truth Wins Out. “Now they have finally realized how dangerous he is, but how many vulnerable folks have already been victimized because of Exodus’ support of this man?”

“Shame on Exodus International for dragging its feet when our children were at risk,” said Truth Wins Out’s Executive Director Wayne Besen. “Exodus was more interested in covering up the scandal than fixing it. This case shows that ex-gay programs lack standards and place vulnerable people in harms way.”

At the age of nineteen, McAlvey, who came from a religious background, was terrified that he might be gay. Feeling vulnerable and desperate to “change”, he placed his trust in Mike Jones and Corduroy Stone.

He asked how large my penis was,” McAlvey explained of Jones’ therapy. “He asked if I shave my pubic hair. He asked what type of underwear that I wore. He wanted me to describe my sexual fantasies to him and the type of men I’m attracted to. On one occasion, he asked me to take my shirt off and show him how many push-ups I could do, which I did not do.”
Truth Wins Out - Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

Welcome to the bizarro world of reparative therapy...


People with no psychological degree, pretending to give psychological therapy.
If we had a person who was not a dentist providing "dental" services, our government would quickly rectify the situation...
But people proclaiming to provide psychological help are harming people, and nothing is done about it...
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

I'm glad this is coming to the light of day. It would have to have psychological ramifications.
I think the ministers are well meaning, but don't fully understand the situation.
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Old 12-20-2009, 11:12 PM
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Default Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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I'm glad this is coming to the light of day. It would have to have psychological ramifications.
I think the ministers are well meaning, but don't fully understand the situation.
The Superintendent trying to keep Ryan White out of school was also well meaning... There are many who have spent their lives trying to keep homosexuals on the back burner and in the closets who are well meaning. I'm sure that some could say the policies of Hitler were well meaning, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

\I've stated numerous times in many debate forums,and firmly think that once it's looked at with blunt and crystal clear intellectual honesty, homosexuality will be determined to be a disorder -- and a reversable disorder at that.

That being said, what these people have been trying to do is clearly irresponsible and harmful. They still refuse to see the obvious, that homosexuality isn't purley mental or a "choice." A gay person can't just think, counsel, pray and fellowship their way out of being gay. Nor, IMO, should they be encouraged to even try.

Clearly, homosexuality has medical/biological aspects to it.
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:01 AM
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Post Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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\I've stated numerous times in many debate forums,and firmly think that once it's looked at with blunt and crystal clear intellectual honesty, homosexuality will be determined to be a disorder -- and a reversable disorder at that.
As it has been shown before, homosexuality is no more a "disorder" than people who like oral sex or people who have sex with post-menopausal women or people who have been surgically fixed.

It is extreme to think that people who don't cling to procreational sex are somehow "disordered"...


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Originally Posted by mytmouse57
That being said, what these people have been trying to do is clearly irresponsible and harmful. They still refuse to see the obvious, that homosexuality isn't purley mental or a "choice." A gay person can't just think, counsel, pray and fellowship their way out of being gay. Nor, IMO, should they be encouraged to even try.
Getting back to the earlier this discussion...
THIS is part of the reason I recognize that too often those who are against homosexuality are not "rational" in their approach.

They assume things about homosexuality and insist that their world view must be taken as true.
"Rational" seeks facts.
Too often with the anti-gay, they simply want to tell you what gays are supposedly like. And what's worse, they proceed to try to "fix" gays based on their mistaken thoughts.
In the opening lines the story makes clear the significance of the poll: for the first time in history, the majority of people polled on the issue of whether gays "choose" their sexuality said that they do not believe that sexuality is a choice. This group made up 56 percent of respondents, up from 45 percent in 2001 and 36 percent in 1998.
CNN's latest poll: Gay not a choice | AfterElton.com

When you've got such a large group that proclaims gays "choose" to be gay, labeling them as "rational" is missing the boat...
It's almost 2010, and we're just now getting to a situation where a majority recognize being gay is not a choice???
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Old 12-21-2009, 10:54 AM
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Default Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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Too often with the anti-gay, they simply want to tell you what gays are supposedly like. And what's worse, they proceed to try to "fix" gays based on their mistaken thoughts.
By writing this, aren't you doing the exact same thing?...

Aren't you, in the form of being gay, simply wanting to tell us what anti-gays are supposedly like?...
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Old 12-21-2009, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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By writing this, aren't you doing the exact same thing?...

Aren't you, in the form of being gay, simply wanting to tell us what anti-gays are supposedly like?...
Based upon the actions of groups like that mentioned in the OP. Not personal feelings, but evidence.
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Old 12-21-2009, 09:13 PM
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Post Re: Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

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Originally Posted by saltwn
I'm glad this is coming to the light of day. It would have to have psychological ramifications.
I think the ministers are well meaning, but don't fully understand the situation.
I think in their head, they mean well.
But their lack of concern for recognizing the reality of the harm they inflict upon others is repugnant IMO.

It's like a father who wants his child to be in shape, but instead drives the child to anorexia...

If you have a medical therapy that a doctor was applying to a patient (like curing cancer), the doctor would be interested in the prolonged effect of the therapy.
But with "ex-gay therapy", they habitually show callous disregard for the harm, and if the patient reverts to gay they suddenly pretend they never heard of the guy...


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Originally Posted by cnredd View Post
By writing this, aren't you doing the exact same thing?...
Aren't you, in the form of being gay, simply wanting to tell us what anti-gays are supposedly like?...
I am documenting what they ARE DOING...

You are trying to compare that to others trying to tell gays that they CHOSE to be gay?
(incidentally, not true...)


Do you dispute that what is being described is what IS happening?
Cause I (and the professional psychiatric community) clearly dispute the anti-gay belief that gays "choose" to be gay...

And as for the above, I can readily document examples of what I am talking about.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dabateman
Based upon the actions of groups like that mentioned in the OP. Not personal feelings, but evidence.


And sadly enough, it is not an isolated story.
There are a variety of stories of "anti-gay therapists" whose tactics have been exposed, and suddenly they are "distanced" by the ex-gay groups...
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