Truth Wins Out - Ex-Gay Ministry in Lansing Cut Loose After Charges of Bizarre Therapy

Welcome to the bizarro world of reparative therapy...


People with no psychological degree, pretending to give psychological therapy.
If we had a person who was not a dentist providing "dental" services, our government would quickly rectify the situation...
But people proclaiming to provide psychological help are harming people, and nothing is done about it...

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"Try to become not a man of success, but try rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein

I'm glad this is coming to the light of day. It would have to have psychological ramifications.
I think the ministers are well meaning, but don't fully understand the situation.

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The Superintendent trying to keep Ryan White out of school was also well meaning... There are many who have spent their lives trying to keep homosexuals on the back burner and in the closets who are well meaning. I'm sure that some could say the policies of Hitler were well meaning, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

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The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.

-- Hitler, April 11 1942

\I've stated numerous times in many debate forums,and firmly think that once it's looked at with blunt and crystal clear intellectual honesty, homosexuality will be determined to be a disorder -- and a reversable disorder at that.

That being said, what these people have been trying to do is clearly irresponsible and harmful. They still refuse to see the obvious, that homosexuality isn't purley mental or a "choice." A gay person can't just think, counsel, pray and fellowship their way out of being gay. Nor, IMO, should they be encouraged to even try.

Clearly, homosexuality has medical/biological aspects to it.

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The early bird gets the worm -- but the second mouse gets the cheese.

The greatest thing about dogs is that everything they do is the coolest thing they've ever done.

Love might be what makes a family... but it's food that makes them stick around.

As it has been shown before, homosexuality is no more a "disorder" than people who like oral sex or people who have sex with post-menopausal women or people who have been surgically fixed.

It is extreme to think that people who don't cling to procreational sex are somehow "disordered"...


Getting back to the earlier this discussion...
THIS is part of the reason I recognize that too often those who are against homosexuality are not "rational" in their approach.

They assume things about homosexuality and insist that their world view must be taken as true.
"Rational" seeks facts.
Too often with the anti-gay, they simply want to tell you what gays are supposedly like. And what's worse, they proceed to try to "fix" gays based on their mistaken thoughts.

In the opening lines the story makes clear the significance of the poll: for the first time in history, the majority of people polled on the issue of whether gays "choose" their sexuality said that they do not believe that sexuality is a choice. This group made up 56 percent of respondents, up from 45 percent in 2001 and 36 percent in 1998.

CNN's latest poll: Gay not a choice | AfterElton.com

When you've got such a large group that proclaims gays "choose" to be gay, labeling them as "rational" is missing the boat...
It's almost 2010, and we're just now getting to a situation where a majority recognize being gay is not a choice???

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"Try to become not a man of success, but try rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein

By writing this, aren't you doing the exact same thing?...

Aren't you, in the form of being gay, simply wanting to tell us what anti-gays are supposedly like?...

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Based upon the actions of groups like that mentioned in the OP. Not personal feelings, but evidence.

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The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.

-- Hitler, April 11 1942

I think in their head, they mean well.
But their lack of concern for recognizing the reality of the harm they inflict upon others is repugnant IMO.

It's like a father who wants his child to be in shape, but instead drives the child to anorexia...

If you have a medical therapy that a doctor was applying to a patient (like curing cancer), the doctor would be interested in the prolonged effect of the therapy.
But with "ex-gay therapy", they habitually show callous disregard for the harm, and if the patient reverts to gay they suddenly pretend they never heard of the guy...


I am documenting what they ARE DOING...

You are trying to compare that to others trying to tell gays that they CHOSE to be gay?
(incidentally, not true...)


Do you dispute that what is being described is what IS happening?
Cause I (and the professional psychiatric community) clearly dispute the anti-gay belief that gays "choose" to be gay...

And as for the above, I can readily document examples of what I am talking about.




And sadly enough, it is not an isolated story.
There are a variety of stories of "anti-gay therapists" whose tactics have been exposed, and suddenly they are "distanced" by the ex-gay groups...

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"Try to become not a man of success, but try rather to become a man of value."
Albert Einstein