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Old 12-26-2021, 04:59 PM
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Default What does porneia cover?

The teacher in Sunday School today was a man I have not seen previously. But he was especially knowledgeable--about both the Bible, and tangential matters (including--but not limited to--the history of the times).

We were studying chapter 7 of Mark.

Jesus' condemnation of "fornication"--i.e. porneia ("sexual immorality," in some versions), in verse 21, came up.

I asked the person leading the discussion if he felt that the word (from which we get our word "pornography") is intended to include all sexual relations outside of marriage, or if there is a discernible difference--a moral difference--between (a) a one-night stand; and (b) relations between two adults for whom marriage, at the moment, would simply be impractical. (For instance, if both are going to school--and may have several years ahead.)

He responded that there is a significant difference there: If two people get drunk and wind up in bed together, that is just not the same, morally, as two people in a monogamous, committed relationship, who are unable to get married at the moment.

The latter was not at all wrong, in his opinion.

Comments?
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Old 12-26-2021, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The teacher in Sunday School today was a man I have not seen previously. But he was especially knowledgeable--about both the Bible, and tangential matters (including--but not limited to--the history of the times).

We were studying chapter 7 of Mark.

Jesus' condemnation of "fornication"--i.e. porneia ("sexual immorality," in some versions), in verse 21, came up.

I asked the person leading the discussion if he felt that the word (from which we get our word "pornography") is intended to include all sexual relations outside of marriage, or if there is a discernible difference--a moral difference--between (a) a one-night stand; and (b) relations between two adults for whom marriage, at the moment, would simply be impractical. (For instance, if both are going to school--and may have several years ahead.)

He responded that there is a significant difference there: If two people get drunk and wind up in bed together, that is just not the same, morally, as two people in a monogamous, committed relationship, who are unable to get married at the moment.

The latter was not at all wrong, in his opinion.

Comments?
I might agree if it weren't for the fact some might use this teaching as an excuse to tell themselves this is a committed relationship when in their hidden intentions just want a steady lay till they graduate. Therefore each man should read the Bible and glean for themselves what it means for them and make their own pleadings with God. For one to say this or that law can be fuzzed up a bit, is to help one soul while casting stones in front of another soul.
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Old 12-27-2021, 06:05 AM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

I don't understand the impracticality of two adults living together and having sex versus two married adults living together and having sex.
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Old 12-27-2021, 10:23 AM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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I don't understand the impracticality of two adults living together and having sex versus two married adults living together and having sex.
It's not a matter of practicality, it's a matter of Biblical teaching. Sex outside of marriage, one man, one woman, is sin. God will forgive sin but as Jesus said "go forth and sin no more". He was speaking to a woman who was living with her boyfriend at the time.
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Old 12-27-2021, 11:31 AM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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I don't understand the impracticality of two adults living together and having sex versus two married adults living together and having sex.
Presumably, the former would not be living together--just dating (although in a committed relationship).
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Old 12-27-2021, 12:10 PM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

I love the way people twist things to suit their personal "moralities." The bible clearly states sex outside of marriage is fornication. A sin.

But "sin" is the nature of man, so Jesus was simply stating the boundaries of what constitutes "sin."

Weare not condemned for committing sin, but for doing so knowingly without shame before God.

Jesus also warned against "lust" as it was the same "sin." I trust everyone here has felt lust outside of the proper moral conditions to which we attempt to aspire. So, once again we are warned of what is a "sin" and therefore what we must attempt (against our vary nature) to refrain.

Remember, God created everything, including "sin." It is a test of our faith to be tempted. Nothing more.

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It's not a matter of practicality, it's a matter of Biblical teaching. Sex outside of marriage, one man, one woman, is sin. God will forgive sin but as Jesus said "go forth and sin no more". He was speaking to a woman who was living with her boyfriend at the time.
Agreed.
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Old 12-27-2021, 03:15 PM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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Sex outside of marriage... is sin.
Where does the New Testament say that?

In any case, does the invention of modern, reliable birth-control measures not have any moral impact on the matter, in your opinion?

And remember: We are not talking about one-night stands; but exclusively, a committed, monogamous relationship.
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Old 12-27-2021, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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The bible clearly states sex outside of marriage is fornication. A sin.
The word translated "fornication" in some versions of the Bible (porneia) is translated "sexual immorality" in other versions of the Bible.

And the latter clearly begs the question: Just what does "sexual immorality" include--and what does it exclude?
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Old 12-27-2021, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
The word translated "fornication" in some versions of the Bible (porneia) is translated "sexual immorality" in other versions of the Bible.

And the latter clearly begs the question: Just what does "sexual immorality" include--and what does it exclude?
Seems you found the question in the Bible,,,;
Have you not found the answer also in the Bible?

Just teasing.

The operative word phrase here is "...some translations"

Be careful with that.

The Bible is the "word of God, yes. But it is scripted by men. Translations of man's word, by other men leaves a little room for, shall we say, interpretation. It is why I believe it foolish to use one phrase of scripture to argue the meaning of another.


Sex outside of marriage IS immoral. That said, perhaps we can torture and twist the definition of "marriage" to make it just. Common law marriage is universal and did exist at the time of Christ. Are they immoral? Also, does not fidelity begin with betrothal? So once you promise to marry is that not a union wherein such intimacies are within the bounds of morality? If you will, please draw a clean line on what can and cannot be done within the confines of "marriage." Keeping in mind marriage today is different that at the time of Christ.
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Old 12-28-2021, 03:18 AM
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Default Re: What does porneia cover?

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Originally Posted by pjohns View Post
Where does the New Testament say that?

In any case, does the invention of modern, reliable birth-control measures not have any moral impact on the matter, in your opinion?

And remember: We are not talking about one-night stands; but exclusively, a committed, monogamous relationship.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.” -Matthew 5:17 (words of Christ)
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