Apologetics: What about Noah's Ark?

saltwn · #1 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 11:52 PM

Here are two statements that appear to blow a hole in the hull of the old Noah's Ark tale:

Quote:

Wood is not the best material for shipbuilding. It is not enough that a ship be built to hold together; it must also be sturdy enough that the changing stresses don't open gaps in its hull. Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?

Quote:

How was the Ark loaded? Getting all the animals aboard the Ark presents logistical problems which, while not impossible, are highly impractical. Noah had only seven days to load the Ark ( Gen. 7:4-10). If only 15764 animals were aboard the Ark (see section 3), one animal must have been loaded every 38 seconds, without letup. Since there were likely more animals to load, the time pressures would have been even worse.

Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

Dispute those statements, or uphold them?

marylouc · #2 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Here are two statements that appear to blow a hole in the hull of the old Noah's Ark tale:

Problems with a Global Flood, 2nd edition

Dispute those statements, or uphold them?

Boy, that was heavy readng. I personally think that some of the bible stories are parables. The authors of the bible received their information from Divine Intervention. Jesus taught his people in parables so they could understand what he was saying in reference to their own surroundings.

saltwn · #3 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marylouc

Boy, that was heavy readng. I personally think that some of the bible stories are parables. The authors of the bible received their information from Divine Intervention. Jesus taught his people in parables so they could understand what he was saying in reference to their own surroundings.

I agree, marylouc, that parables are used as illustration all the time throughout the bible.
But there is evidence (so says NOVA) of a universal flood or a flood of the known civilized world. I know for a fact there are Noah like stories from other cultures.
BTW, I was only pointing out these two examples and merely placed a reference to give the original author credit. Guess I should have included a note in my post to that effect.

saltwn · #4 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 03:23 PM

Wood is not the best material for shipbuilding. It is not enough that a ship be built to hold together; it must also be sturdy enough that the changing stresses don't open gaps in its hull. Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?

What does this guy think we built ships out of for years and still do?

Besides: Genesis 6:4 says --Get some good lumber and build a boat. Put rooms in it and cover it with tar inside and out.

How was the Ark loaded?

The second argument is a little harder. I'm thinking DNA ; I'm thinking animal have a natural sense and if you believe the bible that sense came from God so why couldn't he have given them a little nudge in the right direction?

Blue Dog · #5 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

Wood is not the best material for shipbuilding. It is not enough that a ship be built to hold together; it must also be sturdy enough that the changing stresses don't open gaps in its hull. Wood is simply not strong enough to prevent separation between the joints, especially in the heavy seas that the Ark would have encountered. The longest wooden ships in modern seas are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was 450 feet long [ Gen. 6:15]. Could an ark that size be made seaworthy?

What does this guy think we built ships out of for years and still do?

Besides: Genesis 6:4 says --Get some good lumber and build a boat. Put rooms in it and cover it with tar inside and out.

How was the Ark loaded?

The second argument is a little harder. I'm thinking DNA ; I'm thinking animal have a natural sense and if you believe the bible that sense came from God so why couldn't he have given them a little nudge in the right direction?

The Flood: Genesis

The size of the ARK was 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits high. This is a ratio of 30 to 5 to 3. It was about 450 long by conservative measures. It was the largest sea vessel constructed prior to 1858.

In 1844 Isambard K. Brunnel built the "Great Britain". Its dimensions were "exactly" the same as the ARK, using a 30 to 5 to 3 ratio. It was determined though "research" that these dimensions were a "perfect" ratio for any large sea worthy vessel. Even shipbuilders during WW 2 used these same dimensions to construct "cargo supply ships". JUST HOW DID NOAH GAIN THE INFORMATION TO USE THESE "PERFECT" DIMENSIONS? There was no previous knowledge to draw upon. BD

saltwn · #6 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

The Flood: Genesis

The size of the ARK was 300 cubits long by 50 cubits wide by 30 cubits high. This is a ratio of 30 to 5 to 3. It was about 450 long by conservative measures. It was the largest sea vessel constructed prior to 1858.

In 1844 Isambard K. Brunnel built the "Great Britain". Its dimensions were "exactly" the same as the ARK, using a 30 to 5 to 3 ratio. It was determined though "research" that these dimensions were a "perfect" ratio for any large sea worthy vessel. Even shipbuilders during WW 2 used these same dimensions to construct "cargo supply ships". JUST HOW DID NOAH GAIN THE INFORMATION TO USE THESE "PERFECT" DIMENSIONS? There was no previous knowledge to draw upon. BD

The argument for that might be the same argument many have projected throughout these types of disputes--that the bible (or in this case Genesis) was written much later than claimed. That along with the fact there were sea travelers floating around

long before anyone in modern days previously assumed. Now we have evidence of Vikings traveling way beyond their immediate domain and theories abound about the Phoenicians whose artifacts are found in archaeological digs around the world.

mlurp · #7 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008, 02:33 PM

saltwn I think your starting to run up against what had me stumped. The idea of full belief in all the writings (church taught) or thinking some of this is just not right. And my place with Jesus, now. Focusing on His words and the prophets.

Good Luck with this portion of the old testament.

Blue Dog · #8 (**permalink**) 06-11-2008, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saltwn

The argument for that might be the same argument many have projected throughout these types of disputes--that the bible (or in this case Genesis) was written much later than claimed. That along with the fact there were sea travelers floating around

long before anyone in modern days previously assumed. Now we have evidence of Vikings traveling way beyond their immediate domain and theories abound about the Phoenicians whose artifacts are found in archaeological digs around the world.

The problem being is the fact that Genesis works in harmony with the entire writings of the Holy Bible to include the New Testament (The New Testament makes reference to the book of Genesis alone over 200 times). And the facts are as stated concerning the Ark and Noah. Noah and his sons had approximately 120 years (as determined by the historical lineage given at the beginning of the narrative written by Noah's sons -- Genesis 5:3-29 and Genesis 6:9 to build the ark to specified guidelines as instructed as the animals came to him he did not have to devote any time toward collecting such. (See the link provided, as it goes into detail with scriptural data as to just how it was possible as stated by the scriptures to indeed build, load, and sail the ark), even by modern calculations. I would like to see any proof of the suggestion that the writings of the Torah (the first 5 books of the bible) were written later in history than stated. As the Bible itself declares that MOSES was perhaps the editor and composer of the Torah and is the one that placed the words to script from an accumulation of several different sources as per the Book of Genesis. Given a close study you will find no contradictions to any of the writings presented from Genesis to Revelations. There are many examples of people taking out context passages and misrepresenting such as CONTRADICTORY or there is indeed a 0.5% copy error ratio when transferring copy from one medium to the next...but clearly determined typo's of human error is not contradictory. In fact, the Holy Scriptures have by far a better example of reproduction error than any other work of antiquity such as Homers works, Josepheus and several other works that average a comparative error ratio ranging from 5 to 8%.

A Study of Genesis

Blue Dog · #9 (**permalink**) 06-14-2008, 12:23 AM

And the "idea" that loading the ark with animals in less than 7 days (approximately 75000 animals) is really not much of a problem at all. The fact that Noah had 120 years to make preparation with the food supply and the construction of the ARK would be moot. And as stated in the scriptures (Genesis 6:20), the animals were made to cooperate with Noah. One can witness over 100,000 people file into the Rose Bowl every New Years in just a matter of hours. Just where any problem would be with loading less animals in 7 days...I just can not reason such as being problematic in the least, especially if the food supplies..etc. were already loaded. Thus it seems, that the possibility of the ARK not being a feasible endeavor is full of flawed logic. BD

saltwn · #10 (**permalink**) 06-14-2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Dog

And the "idea" that loading the ark with animals in less than 7 days (approximately 75000 animals) is really not much of a problem at all. The fact that Noah had 120 years to make preparation with the food supply and the construction of the ARK would be moot. And as stated in the scriptures (Genesis 6:20), the animals were made to cooperate with Noah. One can witness over 100,000 people file into the Rose Bowl every New Years in just a matter of hours. Just where any problem would be with loading less animals in 7 days...I just can not reason such as being problematic in the least, especially if the food supplies..etc. were already loaded. BD

You don't think God may have utilized DNA, which he surely knew about whether we did or not?

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