I'm seeing the exact opposite...

If it's for medical reasons, I don't think a doctor should be required to show it, because it's NOT elective...

It's not like the guy can see a kidney transplant and say "No thanks"...The other option is DEATH...

But when the choice IS elective, it should be a doctor's requirement to show the patient what happens...THEN the patient can come to a decision as to whether or not they WANT the procedure...

I'm saying this...

If a patient wants an ELECTIVE procedure, they should be given the most information on it possible so they can make the choice that is best for them...

It seems like you're disagreeing with it...:

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

The question should be...Unless a patient who's seeking an abortion is requesting the ultra sound, what is the medical purpose of having an ultrasound taken period.

To make it's use mandatory, there has to be a MEDICAL reason of doing the ultrasound in the first place. 'To change the patient's mind' isn't a medical reason, it's a personal reason.

Or a political reason, as it appears in this case.

As KOS said, this sounds like a piece of legislation designed to do nothing but play to the base.

Hey, you won't hear any argument from me against anything the two of you said. I agree completely.

You're taking people against abortion to the extreme...and it's not fair...

My position is twofold...

1) Abortion should be given after ALL available information is given...And that should be EVERYONE'S concern, not just one side or the other...

Hiding patients from the actual procedure is worse than the same accusation of the Global Gag Rule...

"I don't want you to see what's going to be done to your body." is a travesty of deceit...

Pro-choice should mean that even if 100% of women stopped having abortions, they'd still be pleased as long as the CHOICE IS AVAILABLE...

But too many ENDORSE having abortions simply to keep the numbers up so the choice will stay available...And one way to do that is to pretend it's a simple "snip-snip" and "get back in the car"...as if it's like some botox treatment...

2) Abortions on taxpayers' money...If a woman made the decision to do something that'll get her pregnant, then don't look to me when paying for the consequences...:

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

Where am I taking it to the extreme? I'm pointing out the simple fact that an ultrasound isn't a neccessary need in informing a woman about abortion. All an ultrasound does is bring in an emotional response, not an educational one.

There are plenty of fliers, pamplets, and materials available to a woman who is considering abortion. That gives the woman information. But the ultrasound doesn't give information period, it gives emotional appeal only.

IF a woman wants to, by all means she can ask for the procedure herself. I'll even go so far as the doctor asking her if she'd like to have one done.

BUT, the ultrasound shouldn't be made mandatory, as you've stated. ELECTIVE means choice, not mandatory. You make it mandatory, it's no longer elective (meaning the woman chooses whether or not), but is a 'have to do' procedure.

I have no problem with it being elective. I do have issues though making it mandatory.

When you said "'To change the patient's mind' isn't a medical reason, it's a personal reason."...

The intent isn't to "change the patient's mind" except for the extremists...

The intent should be for the patient to understand exactly what's going to happen to her body...If she feels comfortable with it after knowing, I'd be the first person to roll out the red carpet for her at the clinic...

But NOT PROVIDING INFORMATION on what's going to happen to her body...even though she's the one that has to make the ultimate decision...is deceit anyway you look at it...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

Doing an ultrasound doesn't show the woman what going to happen to her body. It would show her the baby in her body, in the hopes of creating an emotional bond to that child. Nothing more, nothing less.

There is absolutely nothing medical in that useage. It's purely to create an emotional reaction for the woman who is pregnant. Nothing more, nothing less.

There is plenty of information to give the woman about her body and the effects of pregnancy and abortion it will do to her body. As well as the doctor themselves counsiling her about what her body will undergo.

But the ultrasound only SHOWS the baby inside of her...Not what it's doing to her body, but for her to view it moving, growing, etc...To create an emotional bond so she's more inclined to protect the fetus rather then abort.

And like I said, as an elective option, I have no problems with the doctor asking her if she wants an ultrasound, or her asking to have one done. But medically, there is no reason to give an ultrasound to a woman thinking about abortion, other then to create an emotional appeal to not abort.

So no, it doesn't need to be mandatory in my opinion. But should be given as an elective option for the woman's consideration/choice to do so only.

Hold on!!!!!!!....

The topic SWITCHED from "ultrasound" to "procedure"...

It happened here...

DON'T switch it back on me!!!!!!...

I've never said anything about the ultrasound throughout this whole thread...

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"You get the respect that you give" - cnredd

I didn't switch anything up on you...Forester, when she used the term 'procedure' wasn't talking about the ultrasound being a procedure, but the abortion being the procedure.

You can't show the abortion being done while doing an ultrasound at the same time...The ultrasound would only show the baby, before the abortion was done.

Forester also states In otherwords, that it's an elective choice made by the woman. She follows it up with

In otherwords, if the woman chooses to have an ultrasound done, then it may change her mind not to have the abortion. Which is why she would have CHOOSEN to have an ultrasound done in the first place.

But then you follow up with your response is You clearly state that you feel an ultrasound should be mandatory, and you consider it a 'procedure' that somehow shows what will happen if an abortion does...Which it in no way is capable of doing. The only thing it's capable of doing is monitoring the baby itself and showing the baby to the woman it is in.

An ultrasound is not a procedure as you are describing it, it isn't designed to be such. And making it mandatory does nothing more then put the woman into more emotional turmoil if it's forced on her to undergo.

As an elective option, it's fantastic. But as a mandatory action it's emotional blackmail.