Apparently their standard procedure was to refer her to the phone counseling, as the Telegraph article stated. They didn't say whether it was done in-house or if she was just given the number to call on her own.

This is an area where I am a bit ambivalent. I think that counseling should be required, but I also see that a certain amount of personal responsibility has to come into play here. I will openly agree that her history of anxiety and depression compromised her ability to properly care for herself though.

Her doctor wanted her to get counseling after the fact. She would not.

I have known and worked with a lot of people that have issues with depression and anxiety. I am, by no means, an expert but that is my educated guess. With the depression, negativity becomes the main way that people interpret things. I don't know this to be a fact, but based on how I have seen people react, I think that I have a good idea.

The purpose of such counseling (this is my opinion mind you) is to determine whether or not this woman wants to go through with the procedure and is competent to make such a decision. It is not to determine if she can handle it. By putting that requirement in, then it creates the 'no one cares how I feel about this' problem if the counselor thinks that she can't.


There are no medical procedures that I know of that require a minimum of two counseling sessions. This woman should have been in counseling for the problems that she was presenting but was not. Unfortunately a lot of doctors are simply prescribing meds when a psychiatrist/psychologist should have been called in. Clearly this is a problem un the UK just like here.

I think abortion procedures would be a good candidate for "required" counseling! When the patient is clearly distraught or confused about her decision,the procedure should not continue or be scheduled in the absence of counseling.In closing..I think you and I agree more than we disagree.For me this is not an anti-abortion issue,it's about what is best for the expectant mother and her mental health.

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Try dumping a bunch of harmones all at once and not having the "ancedote" to that

that kicks in during delivery and breast feeding.
There is a replacement harmone they give to women who don't breast feed. It is given to help the uterus contract. This is something that happens naturally during breast feeding.
I wonder if anyone is doing studies on giving something like that to miscarried or abortion related patients?
Depression is a big factor after pregnancy no matter the circumstances of the birth.

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Yes. The reason as partly covered in my reply to Mikey. Harmones wreck havoc on pregnant women. The most sane person in the world can become a ranting bitch during pregnancy. Afterwards, even with a beautiful healthy baby that was welcomed into the world, she can have severe depression. I never personally experienced after pain or depression, but have known many women (through work and privately) who were extremely depressed.
More research needs to be done on this. And I agree with Spence that mental instability should be a factor in whether the proceedure is performed.
There are many activities that are (and should be) regulated in reguards to mental health.

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Consumption is indeed important in a free economy: particularly the freedom of consumers to buy their goods in unhampered markets. However, key to long-term economic growth is investment (savings), which is the opposite of consumption. Public policies that promote consumption — such as low interest rates — do so at the expense of savings. Less savings means less investments; an economy that does not save or invest will consume all of its resources and eventually end up bankrupt.-David Saied

There are 20 abortions for every thousand woman of child bearing age. I don't know the totals but how many of these woman commit suicide? I think the procedure should be proceeded by a discussion with your doctor. I just think this is an anomaly. She might have been bipolar for all we know. Or a victim of incest or molestation or????

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We agree that she should discuss this with her doctor. Where we probably disagree is I think she should discuss it with a doctor who has no monetary interest in the matter.

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Consumption is indeed important in a free economy: particularly the freedom of consumers to buy their goods in unhampered markets. However, key to long-term economic growth is investment (savings), which is the opposite of consumption. Public policies that promote consumption — such as low interest rates — do so at the expense of savings. Less savings means less investments; an economy that does not save or invest will consume all of its resources and eventually end up bankrupt.-David Saied

Sure, as long as the doctor also has no political interest in the matter either. But who is going to pay for this added financial burden of counseling for poor women who seek abortions?

I have given birth to four children. BELIEVE ME I know this!

Hormones wreak havoc on pregnant women, we agree. Denying an abortion to someone with a history of anxiety and depression is NOT the answer since the hormones would continue to wreak havoc on her system and intensify the already existing problems.

It has been stated in other posts that this is more a mental health issue than an abortion issue. I am inclined to agree.


I was fortunate there as well. Caught a tiny hint of 'baby blues' after the third, but nothing like what some of my friends have experienced.


If there was ambivalence, then the procedure should not have been performed, IMO. A history of depression is not the same thing. Think about it for a minute... How do you think that she would have reacted if she had been told that she wasn't allowed to have an abortion because she was depressed? I can't see how that would make the situation better, can you?

We agree that a counseling session should be required. We do not agree that multiple sessions should be required. That would only advance the pregnancy and make the procedure more complicated and risky when she decides to have it. If the patient is ambivalent about getting an abortion, a waiting period is a good idea IMO.

I agree that this is more about mental health than abortion. I suspect that the other women that would have had them while the counselor was on vacation, using the phone counseling, would have been mentioned if there had been problems with them. Unfortunately, this was a person who was at risk, and the timing could not have been worse.