View Single Post
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2018, 12:34 PM
mr wonder's Avatar
mr wonder mr wonder is offline
PW Enlightenment
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Virginia
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,643
Thanks: 10,121
Thanked 6,288 Times in 4,283 Posts
Default Re: Stephen Hawking says he knows what happened before the dawn of time

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
My points were not Theories but farcical concepts mystically based on a couple of knowns. You are welcome to take them apart, if you must, but please take them with the humor intended.
Ok but give m a clue as to which parts you think are mystical and farcical and humor. None of the concepts you mentioned don't have people that promote them seriously.
So i addressed them seriously.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
BTW Dark matter exists. Like gravity,,, it is Proven. we just don't know yet what it really is.
as i mentioned some scientist say they think that dark matter can be accounted for by other known forces. and if you remove certain big bang assumptions.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Hawking likely knows more about the universe than you and I combined. But then so did Newton and he was wrong. The same could be said of Einstein.
I'm sure they all do/did. doesn't mean they've made a convincing cases for everything they promote or promoted.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Yes the clues do tend to point to intelligent design. And the Bible confirms that. But much of the Biblical history is unproven so that justification of what is essentially a Mythology ( to be blunt) is hardly conclusive evidence. And such thinking IS the example of stumbling over ourselves to which I pointedly referred.
Do a bit more study franc. most of the Bible is proven... or better word.. supported historically.
and assuming that portions are essentially Mythology is just that, an unsupported assumption.
As you say, "Best we be careful there".

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Early astronomers, the Greeks and the Egyptians, tried to take their celestial observations and fit them to their theologies.
Some tried some didn't. When they did they failed. the Bible does not fail.
As scholars of mythology like C.S. Lewis noted there's a different approach in scripture to the narratives. they aren't "once upon a time" stories.
Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
Same scientific methods were used in the Middle Ages.
some methods in the middles ages were scientific some not some were based on older Greek, Arab and Babylonian culture's science.
all of the ancient cultures practiced "science" made a lot of discoveries , many of sciences were attached to the religion. which made it better and worse in various ways.
most (if not all) of the early "modern" western scientist were christian and many said out right that they felt they could pursue the truth of nature without fear becasue they understood that it was created logical and orderly and NOT random. many realize that there would be no modern science if the monks and others in the middle ages hadn't laid the ground work for a basic understanding of the natural world found in the idea that GOD made it all and it's opened to be explored and you will find order and causality in the natural world.

Originally Posted by FrancSevin View Post
We cannot chose where we are going in science and then invent the facts which get us there. No, better we stub our toes as we crab through the ages in the dark, guessing our way with hesitant unbiased speculation until the path is proven true.
science often starts with guesses, at questions. And the guesses are often assumed (promoted as) "true" if they seem to make sense (or they like them better than other ideas) and sometimes the bad guesses are pursued observationally until finally after holding on to them for far to long they simply cannot be held as true anymore becasue of facts that disprove them.

the idea of the earth as center of the solar system , promoted by Ptolemy the Greco-Roman scientist, was adhered to for centuries. To the point where some scientist (followed by the religious majority) would not even LOOK at Galileo's notes or look though his telescopes to disabuse themselves of the "COMMONLY HELD scientific view of the day. "Spontaneous Generation" was another scientific view that held sway until finally the scientific political consensuses allowed the idea to die. the same with the Germ theory as apposed to miasma and bad humors all major "scientific" theories. Some doctors REFUSED to wash their hands even when facts were presented that PROVED that it helped reduce illnesses and death.

Bottom line the quest for truth scientific and otherwise is not so pure or whimsical.
People often tend to go with the crowd and/or their desires as long as they can. Collections of facts do eventually move some folks but it's by no means as sure thing. But I do believe the truth will finally always win, it can be ignored but it won't go away.
Hope is the dream of the waking man.

For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:6-8

Last edited by mr wonder; 03-06-2018 at 12:40 PM..
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to mr wonder For This Useful Post: